Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 474
Location: Amsterdam
Thanks: 31 times
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 3 post(s)
|
I'm thinking to buy a second hand scope myself.
The only component I use in the DAC/Pre-Amp stage which not has been develloped by TPA is the Wave IO.
I never really worked with a scope but maybe anyone in the vicinity of Amsterdam could help me out with that at the time.
I'm sure we are not the only ones (now or in the future) with this issue so if we tackle this more could be benefit from this indeed.
Grt,
Jordo
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/17/2008(UTC) Posts: 921  Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 70 time(s) in 69 post(s)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 474
Location: Amsterdam
Thanks: 31 times
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 3 post(s)
|
Thx Avr300,
Nice document.
By time I will open a new thread with requests of what to measure and verify first.
Grt,
Jordo
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 474
Location: Amsterdam
Thanks: 31 times
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 3 post(s)
|
text deleted... it didn't add.. Tomasz, You have an older house too just like me if I remember well. I have the PC and stereo grounded to earth in an unorthodox manner. Do you have that too? But all the rest of the house is ungrounded. It came to mind that, when I had the scope plugged in the wall socket, every time I touched the Gnd Probe of the Scope to a Ground (signal or earth) the same happens as with the light switch. Grounding the device with the earths of the amplifiers solved this. I think everything in house which is not connected to earth will interfere somehow.... Disconnecting Earth Ground is no a good idea in general but maybe..... I will try tomorrow. (Switching the light on and off now- on which the stereo reacts the most- will wake my pregnant girlfriend   ) Edited by user Tuesday, November 10, 2015 12:40:42 AM(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 474
Location: Amsterdam
Thanks: 31 times
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 3 post(s)
|
Tomasz I've got it!! The input voltage of the signal was too high for my WaveIO. Lowering the voltage to 3.3V reduced all the noise in the Powersupply and fliping a light switch will not interrupt the Lock signal anymore!! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 11/23/2014(UTC) Posts: 31  Location: Wolfsburg
|
Thats really cool Jordo! That gives me also the hint where to dig. I was working lately on design a bit and didnt have time to check the things, but thats definietly what i am going to proove next....as soon as i am back home and get some free time. ...here is the last progress...some crappy mobile photos, but its like 90% shaped (soft and hardware)    
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 474
Location: Amsterdam
Thanks: 31 times
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 3 post(s)
|
Yeah real cool! With my new old scope I spotted noise on the PSU's of the WaveIO and Teleporter. Trying to solve that I accidentally also,solved this complaint. You can read it in this thread.. I really really like your casing!!  Would anyone believe you when you say it's DIY audio?? Nice those hypex mono blocks. I have them too  I hope you have a similar cause for this problem. Get home soon! Cheers, Jordo Edited by user Tuesday, November 10, 2015 11:16:43 PM(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 474
Location: Amsterdam
Thanks: 31 times
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 3 post(s)
|
It seems that I yelled too early :'( One of the two light bulbs I switch on- and- off was broken. After replacement it's as there again. It has improved slightly tough... The switch and his lights are on a complete different group.... But I don't understand; There are Common Mode Rejectors and Isolators everywere.... I've got Medical filters for the mains. I have spend hundreds of euros on EMI protection.... Update: I'm a bit wiser now. I installed the WaveIO drivers on my laptop. Even with the laptob plugged into the wall socket nothing happens when I turn the lightswitch on repeatedly. So what to do with this info.. I have extensively isolated the Power Supplies of the WaveIO en Teleporter circuit. I also tried with the grounds connected. No cure. So it must be the PC's USB signal which get interrupted when the switch is flipped. I just tried it with the PC loose from Earths Ground but that doesn't help. Maybe I have to try something like thisEdited by user Wednesday, November 11, 2015 3:56:29 PM(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Administration
Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,868
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 141 time(s) in 134 post(s)
|
Or, you could break all of your light switches
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 474
Location: Amsterdam
Thanks: 31 times
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 3 post(s)
|
I'm about too! (no I'm not) In fact, I just dismantled one today to clean the contacts. But still.. Could this be an option? IpurifierOr maybe better is to search for a clean power supply for the PC. If my current supply passes trough all the noise from the grid... Someone any suggestions for an audiophile grade Power Supply for the PC for ultra clean stable power? Or maybe an UPS (Uninterrupted Power Supply)? APC UPS. . Edited by user Thursday, November 12, 2015 11:57:52 AM(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 474
Location: Amsterdam
Thanks: 31 times
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 3 post(s)
|
Allright update: I unplugged the Power cable which feeds the mother board of the PC. With the scope it's a constand flat sharp line. This is what happens when I connect the motherboard with the scope at 1m. Edited by user Thursday, November 12, 2015 5:35:52 PM(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified Jordo attached the following image(s):  Motherboard noise.JPG (102kb) downloaded 13 time(s).You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 474
Location: Amsterdam
Thanks: 31 times
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 3 post(s)
|
This is what happens when I flip the light switch. Sorry for the bad quality. It are screen shots of a movie... Edited by user Thursday, November 12, 2015 4:37:23 PM(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified Jordo attached the following image(s): Alf.png (195kb) downloaded 16 time(s). Alf2.png (207kb) downloaded 13 time(s).You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 474
Location: Amsterdam
Thanks: 31 times
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 3 post(s)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/19/2011(UTC)
Posts: 332
Location: Oslo, Norway
Thanks: 14 times
Was thanked: 17 time(s) in 17 post(s)
|
I used to have simular problems with my computer`s usb devices. I changed my mobo, cpu, mem and PSU a whiile back and it has not been an issue since. My current PSU is the AX860i so it may be the right thing in your system as well. But since I changed pretty much everything in my computer I cant say for sure that it will solve your issue. But it cant hurt.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 11/23/2014(UTC) Posts: 31 Location: Wolfsburg
|
Jordo, is your USB input isolated?
I wouldnt change anything on the PC, i would rather try to isolate the input.
As far as i know waveio has isolated and unisolated outputs...
By the way i am going to get myself the scope this month as well, iam curious how it looks like
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/23/2010(UTC)
Posts: 708
Location: Netherlands
Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 48 time(s) in 45 post(s)
|
An APC back-UPS will not solve a problem with a noisy power line. That type switches to battery power when the signal is already way out of control (and for about 50 ms or so). You need the so called on-line or double conversion types (Smart UPS RT series) for filtering that kind of signals. Do
beware these are less efficient and way more costly.
I'd try a Corsair AX760i as a PSU for the PC before even thinking about a UPS. It's extremely efficient, so you'll likely save some energy instead of waste it. Plus it has excellent control over the power delivery.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 474
Location: Amsterdam
Thanks: 31 times
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 3 post(s)
|
Thanks guy's, We will know the answer tomorrow. Comming morning I will pickup the AX760i. I expect a lot of it. This afternoon I took measurements with the scope and noticed a tooth saw patern on a 5V connector. I think we're spoiled by the Placids I indeed understood that an UPS will not be the answer. Thomasz, yes everything is isolated up to great effort. The Teleporter and WaveIO's PSU's are floating. The USB shield of the PC does not make contact with the chassis and I use the isolated WaveIO outputs. The inputs of the Teleporter are isolated as well. The only thing that is connecter trough ground is the Data - and Power - of the USB but that will remain internally. The WaveIO does not pass these grounds to the chassis nor the power supplies of the Teleporter and WaveIO. This evening I also made an extra effort to use Shielded Twisted Pairs for the Isolated outputs from the WaveIO to the Teleporter. Also the DC power lines are STP. I know it's over done but hey, it's my set  @ Gwikse; Let's hope it stay's with the power supply of the PC. Keep you posted! Grt, Jordo
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 474
Location: Amsterdam
Thanks: 31 times
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 3 post(s)
|
Update: It was'nt the power supply... This afternoon I will continue to isolate modules icw the scope. Someone on another forum found this as solution for the same problem: Quote:I did have an issue with dropouts whenever something was switched in the house, cured by using a screened CAT6 cable with the screening earthed at one end
PC: Is connected to safety earth (I did nothing on the PC-Side)
WaveIO + Sending Teleporter : Signal ground is connected to safety earth
Buffalo: no connection to safety earth. But connection to WaveIO ground necessary. . For the first part; I have them connected at both ends. The signal ground to earth... I will experiment. I will try this soon... Edited by user Saturday, November 14, 2015 12:21:16 PM(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 474
Location: Amsterdam
Thanks: 31 times
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 3 post(s)
|
Allright here I am again,
I think I might have solved the problem...
I had the complete WaveIO/ Teleporter system with their dedicated PSU's completely floating and isolated from the PC, Amp and Pre-amp.
After disconnecting everything I began to connect the wires piece by piece keeping my eye on the scope.
I shall get right to the point;
- The WaveIO USB receptacle needs to be grounded to the chassis.
- The Ground Stud (adjecent of the WaveIO's PSU input) needs to be connected to the chassis.
This prevents distortions, by flipping a light switch, to penetrate into your signal path.
- It helps to reduce the Voltage input to the Isolated WaveIO circuit (from the Teleporter Vin) to less than 3,3V.
- Shielding of the data cables sure does help. The times I had an unlock caused by the light switch the duration of the dropout lasted significantly shorter and was less intense than without shielding.
- The groundwire of the V- of the Isolated output does not have to be connected to let the circuit work.
All the grounds on the Isolated output of the WaveIO are interconnected.
I do still have a bit of an issue with the Main Power of the WaveIO and its PSU but I will post that in another thread to keep this one focussed on the unlock problem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 11/23/2014(UTC) Posts: 31 Location: Wolfsburg
|
Let me start with happy new year guys! For me it started definietly happy, i have got my buffalo working. Well just in voltage mode, but still its a huge step. So, how have i done it? First i have got myself a scope and measured the outputs of both buffalos. The result was good,, i havent notieced anything wrong. Then i have measured the buffalo ground, found some small mistakes on grounding between buffalo and arduino as well as on signal output. I have tried to connect the buffalos again in voltage mode (in current mode, with legato, they still dont work) and the result was stunning! It sounds fantastic! I also like the voltage mode, as there is noing between the dacs and amplifiers, but havent really got it work on current mode, so cant compare. Anyway, the buffalo works in full dual mode, no distortion, no loosing lock....and it sounds great ;)   
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
