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christensenleif@msn.com  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:28:38 AM(UTC)
christensenleif@msn.com

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hello
I have a related issue like Henri in two differently configured BIII/Legato/sidecar/4xs/pdif based dac´s:
dac A:
when I hook up s/pdif sources to input 1 and 2 which are configured for consumer lvl
they both work fine if both sources are powered on
sources are 2 different consumer lvl players and swapping inputs changes nothing, so it´s not source related
if source is hooked up to 1 with open input 2, or souce 2 is powered off, signal doesn´t lock properly
same with 2 live and 1 open, or unpowered
if I remove cables from rca plug to pcb on 2, 1 works fine and vice versa
sidecar pcm selection is powered with separate switch feeding I2C header 3,3 vdc routed to "b" on sidecar
this works just fine, independant of s/pdif problem
ac gnd goes to chassis back aluplate and all other pcbs connectors etc are isolated from chassis aluplate
I´ll get back to dac B later

best
Leif

Edited by user Wednesday, April 11, 2012 6:44:14 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

christensenleif@msn.com  
#2 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2012 3:40:23 AM(UTC)
christensenleif@msn.com

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in the neverending pursuit of solving this stupid problem:
Yesterday I experimented with pulling positive s/pdif inputs to gnd on s/pdif pcb via resistor from 180R, 3K3, 10K and it improved stabilty
lock is also influenced by gnding minus on unused input, but not well enough
TPA guys:
you say plenty of people use this combo:
how do they gnd their units?
have they actually tested using only one input at the time, with the others open?
I don´t see why e.g input 1 should be dependant on powered on source on input 2 to get stable lock

best
Leif
henri47  
#3 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2012 5:11:43 AM(UTC)
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That's exactly what I also want to know.
grts
Henri
christensenleif@msn.com  
#4 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2012 6:07:53 AM(UTC)
christensenleif@msn.com

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it´s something "fishy" going on
I have basically same problem in 2 different BIII based dac´s and they´re not my first project either
if all worked normally the s/dif inputs should be indentical and not dependant on each other
each input should be possible to use with steady lock whether the other inputs are occupied or not, powered or not....
given the utter silence in these two particular threads and "radio silence" on mail, I suspect/hope there might be some "activity behind the scenes"
I choose the patient approach for the time being
best
Leif
Russ White  
#5 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2012 6:30:13 AM(UTC)
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There is nothing happening other than two guys with real full time jobs. We can't watch the forum all the time. :)

Each input into the SPDIF 4 is exactly the same. I would suspect there is likely a GND loop issue.

I would experiment as you are doing.

Some sources will not handle transformer coupling well, and you may want to bypass the transformer for those sources. To do that you must remove the transformer (so that you don't load the secondaries) and replace it with 2 wires going from the primary pads to the secondary pads.

Cheers!
Russ

Edited by user Friday, April 13, 2012 6:45:26 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

christensenleif@msn.com  
#6 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2012 7:08:00 AM(UTC)
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ok
but I think you guys might be familiar with the dvd 1930 which is one of the sources
do you know if it dislikes x-former coupling
mvh
Leif
Russ White  
#7 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2012 7:13:53 AM(UTC)
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I don't honestly remember. I don't have one on hand at the moment to test.
Brian Donegan  
#8 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2012 7:32:43 AM(UTC)
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Can you post a diagram of your input connections and power wiring?
christensenleif@msn.com  
#9 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2012 10:41:54 AM(UTC)
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hello B
you´ve got mail with pictures
best
Leif
Russ White  
#10 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2012 12:06:18 PM(UTC)
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Leif, having seen the pictures, your ribbon cable is much too long, and it should never wrap over itself. You should put the SPDIF/Sidecar modules both directly in line behind the DAC.
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christensenleif@msn.com  
#11 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2012 12:29:52 PM(UTC)
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ok will do
but the other dac is done like you say
the power connections are good , right?
best
Leif
ed linssen  
#12 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2012 4:03:40 PM(UTC)
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Hi Leif,
Don't know exactly what the resistors on input 1 and 2 are meant for. I assume for tuning the input impedance or something like that. But one thing at least seems not right to my view. The R on input 1 shorts the plus and minus, while the R on input 2 shorts positive and ground? Maybe you just want to load the inputs?
Just a try,
Ed
ed linssen  
#13 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2012 4:11:12 PM(UTC)
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The leads to the Exa seem very long as well,
Ed
(forget my former post, I see now you did it on purpose)
christensenleif@msn.com  
#14 Posted : Saturday, April 14, 2012 2:11:13 AM(UTC)
christensenleif@msn.com

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Hello Ed
Exa is stable
know they could be shorter but cause no problem
best
Leif
christensenleif@msn.com  
#15 Posted : Sunday, April 15, 2012 3:18:34 PM(UTC)
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hello folks
re-positioned BIII and L3 straight behind s/pdif board so ribbon cable to sidecar is less than 2 inches and without twists or bends
sidecar is soldered straight on to BIII dig in header
I2S cables are much shorter
still same problem
single input to s/pdif 1 with open unconnected s/pdif 2=unstable lock, but if I gnd minus on input 1 to alu backplate which is hooked up to ac gnd, lock is stable
If I repeat procedure on input 2, no effect of minus to gnd
if both sources are hooked up to s/pdif 1&2 and both are powered , both lock perfectly
Leif
christensenleif@msn.com  
#16 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2012 8:45:59 AM(UTC)
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hello again
tested dac B as well:
same issues

TPA:
are you guys sure you have tried connecting all inputs to s/pdif board and that you can just connect one source to any of the inputs with perfect lock and no issues?
I have to either remove connections from chassis connector to board on unused inputs or hook up another powered source

best
Leif
Russ White  
#17 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2012 12:20:15 PM(UTC)
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Yes, I use all 4 sources and they are typically all on at the same time. Did you try not using transformer coupling as suggested?
christensenleif@msn.com  
#18 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2012 2:30:37 PM(UTC)
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ok
my inputs work ok too, when all is powered, otherwise no steady lock on active unit
no have not had time yet
do I have to desolder and take them out?
should the jumpers go in the "length" direction of the pcb, or in input-output direction?
best
Leif
Russ White  
#19 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2012 2:42:02 PM(UTC)
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Make no difference for me whether any are off or on.

It really makes no sense that one being off would create issues. I am a bit baffled with that one.
christensenleif@msn.com  
#20 Posted : Monday, April 16, 2012 9:44:14 PM(UTC)
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baffled is my middle name!
I´ll get to it later today
best
Leif
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