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grubyhalo  
#21 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:12:11 PM(UTC)
grubyhalo

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Ok, let me see if I got it now. I would need two Ottos, one inside the Denon and one in the DAC. The one in the Denon would switch between DSD and PCM streams and send the digits to the DAC. The one in the DAC would switch between the stream (DSD or PCM) from the Denon and the one from the MUX. The digits from the the various digital devices I intend to hook up with the DAC would be sent to the MUX. Am I even close to something that would work?
NicMac  
#22 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:59:32 PM(UTC)
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Yes. I think you are exactly there. One minor issue is still open: if it is better to connect the MUX and the Buffalo (via the OTTO) by PCM or SPDIF. This issue can however be tested empirically after boards have been installed.
Yesterday I did the microscopic soldering surgery to tap PCM and DSD from the Denon and I hope sound will come out..........
Nic
grubyhalo  
#23 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:38:34 PM(UTC)
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Sidenius112 wrote:
Yes. I think you are exactly there.


Phew, OK!

Sidenius112 wrote:
One minor issue is still open: if it is better to connect the MUX and the Buffalo (via the OTTO) by PCM or SPDIF...


Did you mean PCM or I2S? Think I thought PCM was the information format and SPDIF was the interface format...d'oh!

Sidenius112 wrote:
...Yesterday I did the microscopic soldering surgery to tap PCM and DSD from the Denon and I hope sound will come out..........
Nic


When you say tap PCM and DSD, does it mean that you're creating 2 new output interfaces, one for the PCM and one for the DSD? Or do you actually create one new interface for DSD and use the existing SPDIF interface for PCM? Think Anyway, good luck with your effort. I am a loooong way off before I can try anything so I guess I'll just watch, read, learn and trouble others with stupid questions. Anxious
NicMac  
#24 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2009 3:54:36 AM(UTC)
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I do mean to choose between PCM (4 wire) and SPDIF (2 wire). They are both interface formats.
If I have not understood completely wrong PCM is the name of a group of protocols in which data, bit-clock, and word-clock are transmitted on separate channels.
I2S is just one of several PCM standards (another is for example called EIAJ).
DSD is different from PCM and SPDIF standards in the fact that the left and right data, as well as the bit clock, are transmitted on different wires.
In SPDIF all the information has been "compressed" into a single channel and is typically down-sampled in the process so that what you get out on the back of your transport (in SPDIF) does not have the resolution you paid for when you bought your SACD and DVD-A.

Thats why we want to tap the "original" high-resolution signal and redirect it to the Buffalo.

I will post a photo tonight of how I'm trying to tap the PCM (i.e. I2S) and DSD signal from the Denon 1920.

At the moment its not really working so I hope to get some suggestions from Russ, Brian or MrMajestic on how to fix itThink

Nic
grubyhalo  
#25 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2009 6:14:14 AM(UTC)
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Oh OK. I knew I couldnt've known everything! Yes, pics would be of great help. Hope you get help soon...
stephensun  
#26 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2009 1:59:55 PM(UTC)
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If you are trying to tap DSD and I2S on Sony SCD-XA5400ES, you can get these signals from Pin 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 of DSD1796. But you do not have to solder all wires on these pins directly: trace back from these pins, you will find there are 6 test-point-like solder points between DSD1796A and the clock. It is much easier to tap signals from there.

I modified the 5400ES by 1. swapping DSD1796 by DSD1792, 2. all down stream OPS: THS4032IDG4 x 2 (use I grade for wider temperature range) --> LME45720 x 3. Next step is to squeeze a Buffalo32 in there Boo hoo!

Edited by user Friday, May 15, 2009 2:07:57 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

NicMac  
#27 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2009 2:19:31 PM(UTC)
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PCM with red wires, DSD white.
PCM is connected to pins 46, 50 and 51.
DSD is connected to pins 37-39.
I have checked and double checked connections but I have no lock/sound when connected to Buff24 (through 1 m of Cat5 cable) when I pop in a CD.
I still have to check DSD as the OTTO is non-powered at the moment.
Nic

Edited by user Friday, May 15, 2009 2:39:53 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

NicMac attached the following image(s):
denon_otto1.jpg (124kb) downloaded 360 time(s).
denon_otto2.jpg (40kb) downloaded 357 time(s).

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NicMac  
#28 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2009 2:28:34 PM(UTC)
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For me the Sony SCD-XA5400ES seems a little bit of an overshoot (>1000$) for my needs as I hope to get the same signal quality/resolution from a 100$ Denon....
Nic
grubyhalo  
#29 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2009 2:35:40 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the pics, Nic. That looks like a lot of intricate soldering! When I am ready to make the jump, I think I'm just going to have someone else solder it for me...
NicMac  
#30 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2009 2:53:47 PM(UTC)
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What am I doing wrong? Any pictures of a successful PCM tab?
Nic

Edited by user Friday, May 15, 2009 2:58:37 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

glt  
#31 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2009 3:12:34 PM(UTC)
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Connections look OK. If playing CD, make sure you match the format (I2S, 16-bit right justified, etc)
Russ White  
#32 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2009 7:48:47 PM(UTC)
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Yes I seem to recall needing to change the PCM mode from I2S to LJ or RJ, I just can't remember which.

Its been a while since I have played with it.

If I get a chance I will post my findings.

Cheers!
Russ
NicMac  
#33 Posted : Saturday, May 16, 2009 12:20:38 AM(UTC)
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I'm would not know how to change the PCM justification. I cannot find anything on the Denon menus that lets me fiddle with this. I have the Buff32S coming and I was planning to put my "old" Buff24 into the Denon. Sure would be a petty not to be able to listed to CD's (and DVD-A) over PCM.
Russ White  
#34 Posted : Saturday, May 16, 2009 5:25:45 AM(UTC)
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You would need special firmware. I can arrange that for you once I find which mode it is.

One other option would be to use the otto to switch between SPDIF and DSD instead of PCM and DSD.

You should be able to find a TTL level SPDIF on the board. Just run this to D1 on the BUF32S.

You can switch between TTL level SPDIF and DSD without changing any switch settings or (I am pretty sure) resetting.

Cheers!
Russ

Edited by user Saturday, May 16, 2009 5:33:39 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

NicMac  
#35 Posted : Saturday, May 16, 2009 4:39:17 PM(UTC)
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Hi Russ,
I know that I can could tap/use SPDIF for CD/DVD-A, but I have the impression that it is down-sampled signal.......
I would really appreciated if you could check how you did it using PCM and possibly prepare some firmware chips (one for Buff24 and one for the 32S).
No rush as I'm still waiting for your AC1, Femto, Ballsie Lite etc. to become available Drool
Nic
NicMac  
#36 Posted : Friday, May 22, 2009 2:48:49 PM(UTC)
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Can the ASRC module be used to switch between left and right justified I2S?
Just wondering as there seems to be a lot of in and output options.
Nic
Russ White  
#37 Posted : Friday, May 22, 2009 2:56:31 PM(UTC)
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Sidenius112 wrote:
Can the ASRC module be used to switch between left and right justified I2S?
Just wondering as there seems to be a lot of in and output options.
Nic


Absolutely it can. :)
NicMac  
#38 Posted : Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:06:05 AM(UTC)
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I just received the ASRC module and will try to set it up tonight. I have gone over the ASRC manual and (and, briefly, the data-sheet for the IC) and I think that I know what to do.
I have one question: will the bypass header allow me to restrict the function of the board to do format conversion (i.e. from RJ to I2S) while maintaining the original sample rate and bit-depth?
In the future I would like the AC1 to tell the sample rate of the media I'm playing and with the resampling by the ASRC my CD's would look terribly hig-rezWhistle
Thanks,
Nic
glt  
#39 Posted : Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:52:10 AM(UTC)
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Data sheet is very brief in the subject of "bypass". But it seems to me that you need to match incoming sampling rate to a supported sampling rate. In the case of Metro, 48, 96 and 192 are the frequency supported so for native 44.1, you cannot bypass.
Russ White  
#40 Posted : Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:55:37 AM(UTC)
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Bypass does not do anything but pass straight through, so any sample rate is OK, but keep in mind you may need to get the master clock (depending on the target DAC) from the source.

Cheers!
Russ
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