Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Login


4 Pages<1234>
Options
View
Go to last post Go to first unread
Russ White  
#21 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2012 12:01:29 AM(UTC)
Russ White

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,979
Location: Nashville, TN

Thanks: 25 times
Was thanked: 89 time(s) in 83 post(s)
OK so here is what I tried, and it worked, but its hard for me to say if it is better or not, since it was already working fine for me before.

So if one of you brave souls wants to give it a go I would appreciate it. :)

what I did was lower the reference voltage and impedance by reducing R9 - R12.

I used 2K but 1K would also have probably been fine. you could test this easily by just adding a 2-4.7K resistor in parallel with the existing resistors (this way you don't need to desolder anything).

See if that helps at all.


basically what this does is lower in the impedance into both inputs.

One other idea is to apply a bit of positive feedback (say 47-200K this will take some tweaking) from each output to each positive input on the comparator. But his is a little bit more difficult, and will actually slow the thing down - it may not handle 192Khz input if you do this.

Anyway, just some things to try if you feel like tinkering.

Edited by user Thursday, December 20, 2012 12:05:16 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Corpius  
#22 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2012 10:15:05 AM(UTC)
Corpius

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 2/1/2012(UTC)
Posts: 332
Location: The Netherlands

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 18 time(s) in 18 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Russ White Go to Quoted Post
OK so here is what I tried, and it worked, but its hard for me to say if it is better or not, since it was already working fine for me before.

So if one of you brave souls wants to give it a go I would appreciate it. :)

what I did was lower the reference voltage and impedance by reducing R9 - R12.

I used 2K but 1K would also have probably been fine. you could test this easily by just adding a 2-4.7K resistor in parallel with the existing resistors (this way you don't need to desolder anything).

See if that helps at all.


basically what this does is lower in the impedance into both inputs.

One other idea is to apply a bit of positive feedback (say 47-200K this will take some tweaking) from each output to each positive input on the comparator. But his is a little bit more difficult, and will actually slow the thing down - it may not handle 192Khz input if you do this.

Anyway, just some things to try if you feel like tinkering.
I will give it a try for sure and post the results. Thanks!

Russ White  
#23 Posted : Friday, December 21, 2012 3:22:01 PM(UTC)
Russ White

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,979
Location: Nashville, TN

Thanks: 25 times
Was thanked: 89 time(s) in 83 post(s)
Any luck?
aos  
#24 Posted : Friday, December 21, 2012 11:06:59 PM(UTC)
aos

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 12/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 18
Canada

I don't want to reopen mine until I have several things to do at once. I need to replace heatsink so I can turn on Transporter (default heatsink does not seem appropriate, it is at 60C already) and add Ventus amplifier once it arrives. I will report at that time, likely in a week or so.
DQ828  
#25 Posted : Saturday, December 22, 2012 9:56:38 AM(UTC)
DQ828

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 8/17/2010(UTC)
Posts: 368
Location: australia

Thanks: 8 times
Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
Can't wait to hear the result as this probably explains the problem I was having with the BNC connector.
Corpius  
#26 Posted : Sunday, December 23, 2012 3:40:44 PM(UTC)
Corpius

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 2/1/2012(UTC)
Posts: 332
Location: The Netherlands

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 18 time(s) in 18 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Russ White Go to Quoted Post
Any luck?
I dismembered the entire DAC because when fiddling around I shorted something. This resulted in the left channel falling out with hickups, volume went up and down by itself somehow and the display showed only weird characters. There was coninuity between the chassis and gnd, but between chassis and the positive rails too Think

I have taken all modules out of the chassis. The Dac still locks on the metronome 's clock signal so I think the DAC is not damaged. Since I now I have all modules taken out , it is a good moment to test my new controller and improve the layout and grounding . Now all modules are mounted on a plexi plate instead of metal. This ensures good isolation from the metal chassis.

So to answer your question: No, not any luck at all. I still have to try your suggestion, but won't be able to do so before christmas. My first priority is to test if the dac still works.
Corpius  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, December 25, 2012 1:14:17 PM(UTC)
Corpius

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 2/1/2012(UTC)
Posts: 332
Location: The Netherlands

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 18 time(s) in 18 post(s)
Merry Christmas to you all!

I found some time this morning to test if the DAC still plays and I'm very happy to inform you that it does! Dancing
After Christmas I will do some tests with lowering the inputs impedance into the inputs.
Brian Donegan  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, December 25, 2012 2:07:18 PM(UTC)
Brian Donegan

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,868
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 141 time(s) in 134 post(s)
I am glad it's still working. Beware of static charge buildup on the Plexiglas.

Merry Christmas
SCompRacer  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, December 25, 2012 5:23:24 PM(UTC)
SCompRacer

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 1/6/2012(UTC)
Posts: 305
Location: Plainfield, IL

Thanks: 11 times
Was thanked: 26 time(s) in 21 post(s)
Merry Christmas! Glad your DAC survived Corpius. I've had some scary moments myself....
Erlend Sæterdal  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, December 25, 2012 6:13:05 PM(UTC)
Erlend Sæterdal

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 7/27/2008(UTC)
Posts: 158



Impedance to be lowered where ? On input of the SPDIF 4 ? And is it a good idea to short - input and GND ?
Corpius  
#31 Posted : Tuesday, December 25, 2012 11:36:52 PM(UTC)
Corpius

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 2/1/2012(UTC)
Posts: 332
Location: The Netherlands

Thanks: 4 times
Was thanked: 18 time(s) in 18 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Brian Donegan Go to Quoted Post
I am glad it's still working. Beware of static charge buildup on the Plexiglas.

Merry Christmas
I thought of that myself. The plexglass plate is mounted to the chassis with metal spacers and the chassis is earthed, so I think or hope that this will prevent buildup of static charge on the plexiglass.

Originally Posted by: Erlend Sæterdal Go to Quoted Post


Impedance to be lowered where ? On input of the SPDIF 4 ? And is it a good idea to short - input and GND ?


Read Russ his post #21

.

Edited by user Tuesday, December 25, 2012 11:41:57 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Erlend Sæterdal  
#32 Posted : Wednesday, December 26, 2012 2:01:51 AM(UTC)
Erlend Sæterdal

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 7/27/2008(UTC)
Posts: 158


Thank you Corpius so it is the resistors after the 100 nf. to gnd.

http://www.twistedpearau...al/spdif_4_schematic.pdf

Erlend Sæterdal  
#33 Posted : Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:03:53 PM(UTC)
Erlend Sæterdal

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 7/27/2008(UTC)
Posts: 158

Mounted a 1200 uf. 10 V polymer with only 1,5 mm legs right across on top off the chip. a 22 ohm resistor in series direct to my power supply VD not from the Buffalo board. Shorted all minus / GND input. Mounted 3,9 kohm across the 4,7 kohm resistors. The lock is stable now. Funny thing I have only 0.01 V drop across the 22 0hm resistor. So voltage was not the problem . Oscillation in the chip because off poor power supply design is what I think.

Edited by user Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:06:55 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Russ White  
#34 Posted : Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:12:59 PM(UTC)
Russ White

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,979
Location: Nashville, TN

Thanks: 25 times
Was thanked: 89 time(s) in 83 post(s)
Shorting -IN to GND is often required. There is no power supply on the board, there is good bypassing.

The lowing of the input bias (with the parallel resistor) likely also helps. :)
Erlend Sæterdal  
#35 Posted : Saturday, December 29, 2012 4:43:32 PM(UTC)
Erlend Sæterdal

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 7/27/2008(UTC)
Posts: 158


Russ you know we have different meanings about god bypassing. Excuse me but I do not think 100 nf 10 mm away from the chip is god bypassing. And maybe 15 cm to the buffalo and 15 cm to the supply. That could be 30 cm. in worst case.
aos  
#36 Posted : Saturday, December 29, 2012 5:09:40 PM(UTC)
aos

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 12/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 18
Canada

So my suggestion to add a larger bypass capacitor was correct? I haven't checked the pcb layout so I don't know if that 100nF is placed well enough but I am still thinking a lack of reservoir cap close by is doing this (which you added, two for one, closer bypass and bigger cap at the same time). The mux chip is surely drawing large current pulses which, with no reservoir cap nearby, disturbing the voltage levels enough to overcome chip's noise margin. I am tempted to test it now myself.
aos  
#37 Posted : Saturday, December 29, 2012 6:05:54 PM(UTC)
aos

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 12/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 18
Canada

So I just added 47uF OSCON capacitor I had lying around in parallel with C13 on the back of the PCB. Of course, overnight the power supply to my PC server that has squeezeserver on it died and now I can't actually play music to test it! I tried my old IRiver HP-120 optical out and so far so good - with full voltage there is no skipping even if I touch or plug in something in the coax in while playing through optical in. I will report back once I fix my music server (though finding replacement PicoPSU isn't going to be easy).
LeonvB  
#38 Posted : Saturday, December 29, 2012 11:23:43 PM(UTC)
LeonvB

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 5/23/2010(UTC)
Posts: 708
Location: Netherlands

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 48 time(s) in 45 post(s)
Originally Posted by: aos Go to Quoted Post
finding replacement PicoPSU isn't going to be easy

Really?

See: http://www.mini-box.com/DC-DC
aos  
#39 Posted : Saturday, December 29, 2012 11:31:01 PM(UTC)
aos

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 12/11/2012(UTC)
Posts: 18
Canada

I didn't phrase it correctly. With "finding" I meant finding locally, in a store, in stock right now, today. Anyway, it turns out the dead part is the motherboard, not the PSU :(.

More on topic, I still have a problem when the bathroom fan is turned on or off - the sound cuts out for about a second. But I think this is due to power supply and lack of RF filtering, not the input board. I think I had this happen on another DIY DAC I have.
Russ White  
#40 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:16:25 AM(UTC)
Russ White

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,979
Location: Nashville, TN

Thanks: 25 times
Was thanked: 89 time(s) in 83 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Erlend Sæterdal Go to Quoted Post

Russ you know we have different meanings about god bypassing. Excuse me but I do not think 100 nf 10 mm away from the chip is god bypassing. And maybe 15 cm to the buffalo and 15 cm to the supply. That could be 30 cm. in worst case.


I think you have decoupling and bypassing confused. In any case i am not averse to adding more capacitance there. if it works then by all means do it.

Honestly when designing it I expected most people to directly stack the two boards. If you don't then adding some capacitance may indeed be wise.

Next revision I will keep this in mind. :)

Edited by user Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:18:29 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rss Feed  Atom Feed
Users browsing this topic
GuestUser (32)
4 Pages<1234>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.