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another weird s/pdif unstability problem in BIII dac with sidecar and s/pdif pcb
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Joined: 12/7/2011(UTC) Posts: 474 Location: Amsterdam
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Today my new Toslink Adapter arrived by mail. I soldered it to the board and tested it right away. I hooked it up like it was when it worked (via the 10K resistor on the S/Pdif module, via the Sidecar to the DAC's). Again no Lock, no signal. Then I came to the idea to directly connect the Toslink to the DAC again and guess what?! It worked! It seems the Toslink was'nt broken at all but that I blew a channel from the S/Pdif board. Nevertheless it also worked directly connected to the Sidecar. So I carried on the way I had turned in before; toslink directly to DAC and COAX to S/Pdif board. According to an earlier post (of Russ or Brian ) I also had to cut out the Ribbon Connection between the S/Pdif Board and the Sidecar. So I did and it all seems to be working correctly... Sometimes in the beginning there where some 'ticks' or jitter trough one of the channels. I have set the DPLL to LOW now and for now it works ok.. So this also, as an alternative for the Voltage Devider, seems to work fine....
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 12/7/2011(UTC) Posts: 474 Location: Amsterdam
Thanks: 31 times Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 3 post(s)
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Too early again... There is just one little bit of distortion left sometimes. It sounds a bit like a crackling fire. If I swap sources it seems to clear sometimes but it returns after a while... When disconnecting the D2 (from the Sidecar to the DACs) where the COAX is connected to, it clears.
I think I have to stop my experiments here and have to take the disadvantages. Toslink together with COAX connected does not work for me.
Jordo
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Joined: 11/21/2008(UTC) Posts: 314 Location: Norway
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have had visit from some people last week with extensive experience in electronics and after having gone through the problem and all connections, gnd etc, they claim my problems with these 2 builds are most likelely software related and that the chip gets confused on where to lock any comments? did B send fw chips for me to test ? best Leif
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Groups: Administration, Customer Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,979 Location: Nashville, TN
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The chip can't really "get confused" about where to lock, because all the firmware does is set a register telling it which of the MUXed input to use.
There is no difference between your firmware and anyone else's. :)
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 11/21/2008(UTC) Posts: 314 Location: Norway
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funny that I get same problem in both dac´s you claimed the chip did´nt distinguish between the different inputs either and accused me of developing "attitudes" but it did as you finally discovered yourself
something must be confusing/destabilising the input selection process there´only so many ways you can connect and gnd these things best Leif
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 11/21/2008(UTC) Posts: 314 Location: Norway
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can the chip on the s/pdif input board influnce the lock like this? if the fw chip only selects an input, how come the selected input can be influenced by anything that happens on one of the others? it has to be some sort of common point shared by all the s/pdif inputs best Leif
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Originally Posted by: christensenleif@msn.com can the chip on the s/pdif input board influnce the lock like this? if the fw chip only selects an input, how come the selected input can be influenced by anything that happens on one of the others? it has to be some sort of common point shared by all the s/pdif inputs best Leif By interference. This can take many forms. The ES9018 is using its built in multiplexor. It will only try to receive SPDIF on the selected channel. It sounds like the SPDIF coming on that channel is in some way compromised. You can test this pretty easily by checking each input in isolation with a single source. Do this for each source and each input. Then try combining them one by one - this should help you identify the problematic interaction. Keep in mind there are quite a lot of people using the SPDIF 4 and the B3 with the exact same firmware. We will continue to do the best we can to help you resolve the issues with your particular build. Cheers! Russ Edited by user Monday, April 30, 2012 4:34:13 PM(UTC)
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 11/21/2008(UTC) Posts: 314 Location: Norway
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hello R yes interference sounds likely would it matter that the s/pdif pcb is mounted vertically on the back aluplate? this is common for both builds maybe the plate acts as some sort of antenna? the back plate is connected to IEC ac connector gnd can try to lift as well thought I had tested it like you say, but start loosing track of it all will do tomorrow thxs now I´m off to party (labours day and holiday tomorrow) best Leif
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 11/21/2008(UTC) Posts: 314 Location: Norway
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hello I´m back after logging all combinations of s/pdif inputs: 1,2,3 and 4 alone all locks perfectly signal in 1+4 open stable lock signal in 4+1 open unstable lock....need powered source hooked up to 1 signal in 1+3 open stable lock signal in 3+1 open stable lock signal in 1+2 open unstable pulsating lock signal in 2+1 open -----------"--------------- if remove cable from open rca minus to pcb on open 1 2 locks signal on both 1+2 unstable on 1, stable on 2 signal in 2+3open unstable pulsating lock signal in 3+2 open no lock signal in 2+3 stable on both signal in 2+4 2 unstable, 4 muted/dead signal in 4+2 open no lock remove cable from minus rca to open 2 pcb minus--then 4 locks signal in 3+4 open stable lock signal in 4+3 open unstable lock signal in 3+4 stable on both no diffrence with ac gnd to alu backplate or not input 1 and 2 have removed transformers and inserted jumpers instead at least 1 and 3 works ok, whenever 2 and/or 4 are involved..............? best Leif Edited by user Tuesday, May 1, 2012 1:38:53 PM(UTC)
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 11/21/2008(UTC) Posts: 314 Location: Norway
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hello might be closer to solution: dismounted the s/pdif input board from the rear metal plate and at least with 1 and 2 in all variations seems quite stable, despite that the screwholes on the pcb does not have any contact with neither gnd or minus terminals on inputs or each other the antenna theory wasn´t so farfetched after all will do extensive testing tomorrow best Leif
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Did you check for continuity between GND and the panel?
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 11/21/2008(UTC) Posts: 314 Location: Norway
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yes nothing will check more tonight I´m off to work best Leif
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 11/21/2008(UTC) Posts: 314 Location: Norway
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think I might have solved this by now input 1 is susceptible to picking up noise and acting as antenna; once 1 minus signal cable is removed from open input chassis rca gnd, all problems are gone on the other inputs special gnd scheme: input 1 minus from rca to both input minus and gnd on pcb LegatoLCH bal out gnd (pin1)on XLR chassis connector to chassis connector body (in contact with rear alu plate) beats me, but it seems to work last tests tomorrow best Leif PS cut the "transformer jumpers" on input 1 and problem still there, but cured with above gnd scheme makes me wonder what schematic on input 1 looks like between input header and puls transformer any chance of showing the schematic, or do I need to "read" the pcb? Edited by user Thursday, May 3, 2012 10:26:04 PM(UTC)
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Rank: Administration
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They are all identical. It is actually quite easy to very this with a simple DMM. Edited by user Friday, May 4, 2012 3:38:10 AM(UTC)
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 11/21/2008(UTC) Posts: 314 Location: Norway
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ok, electrically identical, not layout-wise,but still input 1 acts differently resoldered back transformer on 1 2 will be Toslink TTL so it´ll be isolated anyway, so jumpers stays will check more tonight at least homing in on the problem..... best Leif Edited by user Friday, May 4, 2012 4:52:15 AM(UTC)
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 11/21/2008(UTC) Posts: 314 Location: Norway
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hello folks I need some feedback here now:have rca and consumer lvl on 1,3 and 4 positiv signal to respective positive input on pcb if I tie up all rca minus to one and connect somewhere to gnd in dac circuit, should I get sound on all inputs by normal selection by selector switch? best Leif
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Rank: Administration
Groups: Administration, Customer Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,868 Location: Massachusetts, USA
Thanks: 2 times Was thanked: 141 time(s) in 134 post(s)
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Does your ribbon cable still look like this?
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 11/21/2008(UTC) Posts: 314 Location: Norway
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it´s less than 2 inches, not twisted, moved s/pdif input down from backplate and horisontal same fault on both builds all inputs work ok on their own as soon as other inputs are hooked up, I get interference one should think that after 3-4 weeks most user faults should be ruled out difficult to interpret your response as you seldom respond directly to spesific questions e.g the last one on tieing up gnds one thing puzzles me: you say one can tie minus in to gnd on terminal on pcb.....I get a full mute on all inputs! ?
I´m fed up ! I´ll deliver one of them to a submarine electronics engineer, who fixes all that is thrown at him he´s got the gear to find out first time ever I give up!
best Leif
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 11/21/2008(UTC) Posts: 314 Location: Norway
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are there any parts on the s/pdif board between the input header and the pulse transformer? best Leif
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 11/21/2008(UTC) Posts: 314 Location: Norway
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tried again with other s/pdif pcb and same fault
best Leif
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another weird s/pdif unstability problem in BIII dac with sidecar and s/pdif pcb
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