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sangram  
#1 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 6:24:29 AM(UTC)
sangram

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Hi

Got my Buffalo up and running without much hassle. Using twisted pair for all wiring except input and output, which uses shielded wire. SPDIF cable is made of 2m broadcast cable, 75 ohm, and Amphenol RCA connectors, not true 75 ohm. The whole DAC is assembled on an open wooden platform, and the wire runs between the DAC and IVY are about 4" of twisted pair solid-core wire. Transformers are locally-made EI center-tapped transformers, and I cut the center taps to get dual secondaries as required by the LCDPS/BPS.

It sounds absolutely amazing - very open and detailed, with real weight and heft at the bottom end - it's significantly better than any source I have, and one of the best I've heard yet. I'm really pleased with the sound, and it's improved a couple of notches since last run.

One small bug though - the DAC seems to lose lock every hour or so - the lock light flashes, accompanied by a dropout. The sound between dropouts is fantastic - but this is causing a bit of concern. Will it help if I use shielded wire for the DAC-IVY connection, or move the entire into a metal enclosure? If I switch on and off any electrical equipment in the house, I get exactly the same problem, except the dropout is more pronounced. The platform is wooden - is this the issue? The automute light never comes on except if I disconnect the input.

SPDIF is from my E-mu 1212m, and amp is LM3886 to a pair of Usher BE-718s.
leo  
#2 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 7:28:09 AM(UTC)
leo

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Have you tried another source for the Buffalo?

Also do you have any central heating etc which is on the mains or maybe a fridge/ freezer? sometimes when our central heating switches on and goes off (its on a timer) my Buffalo lock led also flickers.
You could try a 1:1 pulse transormer on the SPDIF, I've not tried this with the Buffalo yet but I read somewhere somebody had the same dropout and adding a pulse transformer cured it

BTW, I also have a pair of BE-718's sat on Partington Broadsides;)

Regards,
Leo

sangram  
#3 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 7:31:48 AM(UTC)
sangram

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Thanks, Leo!

I tried the m-Audio Delta 66, which is the only other source I have, and the effect is identical.

Both the cards have output transformers, do I need another on the input as well?

The dropouts happen whenever any electrical device is switched on, even a flourescent light or a fan, or the TV. I'm guessing the regular breaks are caused by the refrigerator.
Russ White  
#4 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 7:34:49 AM(UTC)
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The same thing actually occasionally happens to me. The ES9008 seems to unlock and mute/reset on even very small receive errors. This is a design "feature". ;) This is something ESS has addressed in the ES9018.

Mine will occasionally unlock when someone switches off a ceiling fan. So it could be some appliance or something else on your mains.

Using the higher DPLL bandwidth setting may help or you could try using a mains isolator.

Cheers!
Russ

Edited by user Sunday, January 25, 2009 7:39:43 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

leo  
#5 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 8:42:32 AM(UTC)
leo

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I must admit its never really caused me enough problems to worry about it tbh, its only occasional drop outs for me here

Tell you what though this Buffalo with the prototype Counterpoints sounds very impressive indeed!

How well does the LM3886 amp drive your Ushers Sangram? I'm thinking of trying another chip based amp sometime, wouldn't mind giving parallel LM4780 a go

sangram  
#6 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 9:06:55 AM(UTC)
sangram

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I can't switch on anything without causing a dropout, and the pop through the speakers is pretty loud and irritating (the computer controls volume).

I'm just a little irritated by it - I'll have to buy an isolation transformer for the entire music setup, but I'll try a non-isolated (no transformer) source first - the onboard soundcard on the motherboard can be a start. I'm already thrilled by the sound, but I'll hold out on the upgrades (counterpoint, Placid and Vreg) till I can get this pop music sorted out.

Re the Ushers:

I've used both a single 3886 and parallel 3886 per side for the Ushers. The sound quality is really, really, good - very good bass and brilliantly extended highs. I've got 80,000uF capacitance on there for both channels and snubbers, the only cap in the signal path is a Black Gate NX for Ci (inverting-ground). My vote for the single, slightly more musical even though at high levels it begins to show signs of distress, which the parallel combo does not. The chip is hardwired P2P with the feedback resistor and SMD decoupling caps directly on the pins.

Honestly, the BE-718 could use a bit more drive than that which a 35 volt supply can provide. I did try my 150 watt BPA 4780 on it, but the Ushers are too revealing - it sounded like a tin can. As of now I'm in the poorhouse with the purchase of both the Ushers and the Buffalo in the same month, so I'm taking some time out before upgrading to a better amp. As it is my listening volume has come down a bit with the Buffalo, as the detail is present at lower volumes, which the CS4398 in the 1212m could not bring out till it was cranked up. So for now, the little 60 watt 3886 will just have to do.

I just replaced the zip cord I was using for speaker cable with a DIY cable of four runs of CAT5 per side - so everything is burning in for a couple of days. I got mine on the RWS-729 Usher stand - we have a bit of a problem here with available variety, but I still love these stands. The speakers are bolted tightly down to the stand, which helps the imaging and reduces the last traces of midbass fattening when the speakers are just sitting on the stands. The speakers are totally immobile when placed like this.
kstlfido  
#7 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 4:46:49 PM(UTC)
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Hello fellow buffaloites-

Sangram, thanks for bringing this up. I too, have been having the loss of sync issue (lock light goes out followed with ~1 sec. of silence). Mine occurs more unpredictably, every ~5 min to 20 min.

My chain is: mac > TP usb receiver > buffalo v.1.1 > ivy 2.0.

I thought this effect might be caused due to lack of shielding (my Buffalo set-up is open air, on a breadboard). I'll try the Isolation transformer.

Please let us know if this cures the problem!

Best- Kent
Brian Donegan  
#8 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 5:55:19 PM(UTC)
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The answer to this may be as simple as readdressing the grounding scheme in the DAC, or shielding the digital lines feeding the DAC. With the ES9008's auto-mute function, any tiny burp in the digital stream causes the prolonged mute during relock.
sangram  
#9 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 9:46:41 PM(UTC)
sangram

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Thanks Brian!

Is there a recommended grounding scheme? Right now I'm just connecting units to each other through the provided headers, but can look at running a star ground scheme if there's a recommendation. As of now there are essetially three grounds, generated by the three supplies (2 from the LCDPS and one from the LCBPS). Or am I looking at the wrong end of the horse?

The digital in is fully shielded - it's the runs from the DAC to the IVY that are not.

Quick note on progress:

I attached a UPS to both the PC and the DAC. The breaks have diminished in duration (they're still there, though). The UPS is not very nice for the sonics, for some strange reason. There is a transformer in it, but it's tapped, not isolated. The delay in getting the sync back is much less; earlier it would be a clean second before sound resumed with a loud pop, now it's just a small break in the music and the sync light briefly flashes and carries on.

Today's a holiday for us, so tomorrow I'll start chasing down a 5KVA isolation transformer to separate the entire music system. It seems like a good idea, even if it doesn't fully cure the problem. Any pointers on what kind I should get made? I'll have to place a custom order, this won't be commercially available easily. I'll have some freedom in specifying the materials.
christensenleif@msn.com  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:15:02 AM(UTC)
christensenleif@msn.com

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hello
I have the same problem: the Buffalo loosing sync at seemingly random intervals
I´ve tried all sorts of gnd schemes and cannot solve it
Present gnd is:both Buffalo an IVY psu s gnd only to B. and I .B gnded to usb card and usb card to usb psu.all sorts of combinations does not affect the problem .have tried different combo s of star gnd too.no difference.
I also bought and switched to the latest usb card from www.dddac.de....same problem
the dropout is w/o a sound.. just fades out and back in gain.the automute does not kick in.
however I also get a dropout some times (with automute kick-in)when I switch on the motor of my basis ovation turntable,despite that it is fed by its own Ben Duncan pure cycle generator.
the dac and the whole system is connected to a power filter based on ferrits/MOVs and X and Y capacitors and all is dead quiet into my 107db/watt Avantgarde Trio
have never had any similar problem with any other components inc. ADlabs NOS dac and DDDAC NOS DAC.
Its not a vital problem but annoying
Best
Leif
Norway

Edited by user Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:16:46 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Winder  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:20:00 PM(UTC)
Winder

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Hi Guys,

I recently bought the Buffalo and IVY kit.

Currently I am designing the box/enclosure - its quite a tight affair but this talk of sync loss has me a bit concerned:

Are all Buffalo users suffering from this sync loss - if so:

1) What is the preferred layout? (need to know before starting metal work)
2) Will transformer coupling on the SPdif help? (I did get Newava's as I am keen to isolate anyway)
3) What are the grounding rules?


Thanks

Winder


pelliott123  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, January 28, 2009 1:03:38 PM(UTC)
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I have had mine running for about a month. The only time the DAC hiccuped was when I knocked out the AC cord from the power supply. My PS is on the floor. I separated the PS from the DAC because it's what I do on my DIY projects. I used a seven conductor cable I made out of 14ga stranded, then shielded then texflexed. The shield is earthed in the PS box.
The DAC/IVY grounds are isolated from the power supply grounds. I stacked the Buffalo/IVY/MUX PCBs to keep all leads as short as possible as suggested by TPA. The powersupply is in a well damped metal case and the DAC is now just mounted on a wood board with the ins/outs/switch/volume mounted on 2 inch X 4 inch aluminum stock. I will be building a heavy wood case that will be shielded. That shield will be grounded to power supply ground (earth) through the cable shield.
I am waiting for the counterpoint/placid combo to replace the IVY/PS when its available. Soon I hope
christensenleif@msn.com  
#13 Posted : Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:29:07 AM(UTC)
christensenleif@msn.com

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hello again
have changed the settings on dipsw.3 and 4 on the Buffalo to + when feeding I2S signal into the dac.
settings are now - - + + and during y-days listening session I had no dropouts at all?!
might be too early to be sure but it sure looks promising
best
Leif
Norway
sangram  
#14 Posted : Thursday, January 29, 2009 2:29:00 AM(UTC)
sangram

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So, do other users on I2S confirm that they have no dropouts (and in fact, this may be an issue with the comparator OR the SPDIF input scheme of the ESS9008)?
Brian Donegan  
#15 Posted : Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:37:30 AM(UTC)
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No, Leif is using I2S from a DDDAC (USB).

The problem is the the DAC's digital PLL is very sensitive, and restarts the lock process even with very small errors. This is not uncommon in digital chips, but when it does this, it engages the automute for a few clock cycles, but it is very obvious because of the mute volume ramping (in the Sabre32, this ramping is optional, not default).

The problem is caused by environmental influences. For Russ, it sometimes happens when a ceiling fan in a different room is switched off (but not always). the ceiling fan in his listening room does not cause it to happen. It has never happened to me. Now, Russ uses a wood case for his, but mine is uncased. Would a metal case help? Not sure.
christensenleif@msn.com  
#16 Posted : Thursday, January 29, 2009 2:49:40 PM(UTC)
christensenleif@msn.com

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sry to say but it´s not gone,but it seems to occur less often
now it´s only breadboarded in an old hammond metal case without a lid,so I´ll rebuild the whole thing properly in a thlaudio aluminum case with lid and see if it helps
in the meantime it sounds great and i get in a forgiving mood:d/
best
Leif
avr300  
#17 Posted : Friday, January 30, 2009 2:20:07 PM(UTC)
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Only seen here when switching on and off my weller when the Buff is in the same mains splitter.

You could try with a mains filter, remember to safety earth the filter if it's implemented with Y caps.
christensenleif@msn.com  
#18 Posted : Friday, January 30, 2009 4:04:38 PM(UTC)
christensenleif@msn.com

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I have a mains filter for the whole system
best
Leif
Beefy  
#19 Posted : Saturday, January 31, 2009 7:39:05 AM(UTC)
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sangram wrote:
Is there a recommended grounding scheme?


I would love to know this too. What should be grounded, and to where, on a standard Buffalo build?
sangram  
#20 Posted : Saturday, January 31, 2009 7:42:58 AM(UTC)
sangram

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As of now, I'm running grounds using the headers. I don;t plan on any other grounds, except a safety earth ground when/if I get a chassis for it.

The problem still persists - I'll be trying a mains filter on the PC next.
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