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dariedel2  
#1 Posted : Sunday, August 23, 2015 10:37:09 PM(UTC)
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Has anyone been able to resolve this?
I finally got my Buffalo III 8 channel with 4 IVYs set up with USBStreamer. Everything works!!! BUT.... The USBStreamer won't stay locked. I am using JRiver to feed multi channel to the USBStreamer which feeds I2S to the buffalo. I am using placid hd 2.1 and the HDBP 2.1 for the IVYs.

Voltage to buffalo is exactly 5.25v and CCS is about 540 and shunting about 80. My I2S wires are about only one inch.

Please post if you have any ideas.
Thanks,
doug Riedel

Edited by moderator Tuesday, August 25, 2015 1:35:47 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Brian Donegan  
#2 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 2:45:30 PM(UTC)
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Have you tried adjusting the DPLL bandwidth?

UserPostedImage

Edited by user Monday, August 24, 2015 2:46:16 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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dariedel2  
#3 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 3:05:10 PM(UTC)
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Yes, I tried several settings for DPLL bandwidth. Even Highest setting did not help.

I noticed Russ mentioned in related post on DIY Audio Forum a workaround to have USBStreamer modded to be used with Cronus and Hermes-BBB. If that's what I have to do, then I will, but hoping other solution exists. I will be interested in brief description of what modules I will need for this to work.

Another poster in related forum mentioned that setting SW2-4 to OFF to disable oversampling on the Buffalo III helped/worked, but didn't mention any potential pitfalls of that solution. I plan to try this evening.

Thanks so far for your help, and as I mentioned the rest of the setup works great but unfortunately unusable with frequent dropouts. good music for 2-5 seconds on and 1 second off though! HELP.

Some people out there have to have this setup working as MiniDSP claims they tested USBStreamer on Buffalo III.

thanks,
Doug

PS. As I mentioned, I have 1 inch Data/clock lines. I used stranded wire that came with USBstreamer. Is it worth even trying short solid core silver wire. I think some others have attempted but no success.

Edited by user Monday, August 24, 2015 3:08:06 PM(UTC)  | Reason: additional words

Brian Donegan  
#4 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 3:17:56 PM(UTC)
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The type of wire used for the I2S lines will not make a difference (silver vs copper).

I do not have any experience with the USB Streamer, so no direct experience to report. Hopefully another use can provide some tips.

Can you post a picture of the input section/wiring and the overall layout?
dariedel2  
#5 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 3:40:11 PM(UTC)
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Hand drawn sketch attached to show wiring between USBStreamer and Buffalo. I will post actual photo tonight.
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dariedel2  
#6 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 9:01:47 PM(UTC)
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Brian and TP World,

Good news: switching DIP Switch 2 #4 to off, which bypasses Oversampling/re-clocking, has worked! It works for all source music I've tested up to 96 kHz. I even set DPLL Bandwidth to lowest setting and no skips.

Thanks to a one sentence mention to try this by user on DIY Audio Forum, all sounds great. Sounds counter intuitive as USBStreamer supposedly has lots of jitter, but it works.

Brian and Russ, thanks for answering my newbie, weekend hack questions!

Doug Riedel
dariedel2  
#7 Posted : Friday, August 28, 2015 12:15:29 PM(UTC)
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OK, I'm happy to have my project up and running, but..... I've read all the technical stuff regarding disabling the oversampling (which I'm not knowledgeable enough to fully understand, but at least theoretically it doesn't sound ideal). I have to say the biggest improvement has been my DIY bi-amped 3-way Scan-Speak Illuminator drivers speaker which has come to life because of the now functioning 8 channel DAC.

Brian, Russ or anyone: Will you kindly explain in layman's terms what I might be missing? Another forum user has available the Rigisystems USBPAL which supposedly fully functions with the Buffalo III where I would not need the Oversampling bypass workaround. I'm about $1200 into a DIY project started on a whim, would another $400 for proper USB interface be reasonably worthwhile in your opinion?

If it matters, I'm using JRiver exclusively to run active crossovers and I only use 44.1Khz and higher digital source files.

Thanks,
Doug Riedel
vinste  
#8 Posted : Sunday, August 30, 2015 11:25:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dariedel2 Go to Quoted Post
Yes, I tried several settings for DPLL bandwidth. Even Highest setting did not help.
Thanks so far for your help, and as I mentioned the rest of the setup works great but unfortunately unusable with frequent dropouts. good music for 2-5 seconds on and 1 second off though! HELP.

Some people out there have to have this setup working as MiniDSP claims they tested USBStreamer on Buffalo III.

Hi,
I have quite the same setup: usbstreamer + Buffalo III, only with 4 channels (2xIVY III boards), and quite the same issue.
I am still in the phase of integrating it with my amps, but here is my current status about synchronization drops:

First on the setup:
- my i2s cables are around 3mm long (yes, very short)
- DPLL bandwidth is set to default, and multiplying factor to x1
Then on stability:
- on my test bench (with no case), lock is very unstable (it shortly unlocks every 1 to 2 seconds)
- in my case, lock seems stable (no unlock during 30 minutes, I will do more tests soon) as soon as I close the lid.

The case is a small aluminium one (26827PSLA) : it only includes the usbstreamer, the Buffalo III and the 2 IVY boards, without the power supply (see image).

Hope this helps!

Edited by user Monday, August 31, 2015 12:27:14 PM(UTC)  | Reason: corrected error on dpll bandwidth setup

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dariedel2  
#9 Posted : Monday, August 31, 2015 11:40:23 AM(UTC)
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Vinste,
So just to confirm, you are NOT bypassing over sampling/re locking on SW2-4? And it still works?
Nice job on short wires!

Doug
vinste  
#10 Posted : Monday, August 31, 2015 12:23:44 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dariedel2 Go to Quoted Post
Vinste,
So just to confirm, you are NOT bypassing over sampling/re locking on SW2-4? And it still works?
Nice job on short wires!
Doug

Yes, I confirm: oversampling filter and reclocking is not bypassed.
Still, I realize I made a mistake in my previous post: DPLL bandwidth was not set to highest/x128, but to default.

Here are my switches configuration (see image):
SW1:
Sw Set EXT_IO Usage ON OFF
1 ON A0 Quantizer setting (combined: 1 with 2)
2 OFF A1 Quantizer setting (combined: 1 with 2)
3 OFF A2 Differential mode True Pseudo
4 ON A3 FIR roll off mode Fast Slow
5 ON A4 DPLL bandwidth (combined: 5 to 7)
6 ON A5 DPLL bandwidth (combined: 5 to 7)
7 ON A6 DPLL bandwidth (combined: 5 to 7)
8 ON A7 DPLL bandwidth multiplier 1x 128x

SW2:
Sw Set EXT_IO Usage ON OFF
1 ON B0 S/PDIF input selection (combined: 1 with 2)
2 ON B1 S/PDIF input selection (combined: 1 with 2)
3 ON B2 Normal/Dual mono selection Normal Dual mono
4 ON B3 Oversampling filter and reclocking Use Bypass
5 OFF B4 S/PDIF auto-detect Use Bypass
6 ON B5 IIR Bandwidth (combined: 6 with 7)
7 ON B6 IIR Bandwidth (combined: 6 with 7)
8 ON B7 Input remapping Normal Remap

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dariedel2  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, September 1, 2015 11:43:23 AM(UTC)
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Vinste,

How are you powering USBStreamer? 5V supply or usb?

Also: I tried setting my Quantizer to 7 bits and 6 bits with the SW1,3 to OFF (Psuedo) and still did not work properly although unlocks were less frequent and so in order to keep lock, I still have to Bypass Oversampling on SW2,4.

My wires are only 1 inch, but I'm curious if I can get my wires shorter to maybe 1/2 inch if it will help. so I am curious to hear if your testing results in continuous success with locking, before I try re-soldering.

Also, My ground wire from the Buffalo III to the USBStreamer is slightly longer than the data and clock lines as I didn't think it would matter. Does anyone think the ground must be the same length?

Thanks again,

Doug

vinste  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, September 1, 2015 12:04:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dariedel2 Go to Quoted Post
Vinste,

How are you powering USBStreamer? 5V supply or usb?

USBStreamer is powered by usb. I did not succeed in powering it by external 5V supply. I did order a Placid HD extra for this, but no way to power the usbstreamer and have it work (usbstreamer is not recognized by computer as soon as powered by Placid HD)
Quote:

Also: I tried setting my Quantizer to 7 bits and 6 bits with the SW1,3 to OFF (Psuedo) and still did not work properly although unlocks were less frequent and so in order to keep lock, I still have to Bypass Oversampling on SW2,4.

I do not think there is a connection between quantization and oversampling.
Quote:

My wires are only 1 inch, but I'm curious if I can get my wires shorter to maybe 1/2 inch if it will help. so I am curious to hear if your testing results in continuous success with locking, before I try re-soldering.

Also, My ground wire from the Buffalo III to the USBStreamer is slightly longer than the data and clock lines as I didn't think it would matter. Does anyone think the ground must be the same length?

I am not sure the length of the wires is important: as I mentioned, I have the same issue as yours, as soons as my case is open. USBstreamer/Buffalo couple seems extremely sensitive to EMI.
The only solution I found is to have a proper closed aluminium case in which the usbstreamer and the Buffalo can be installed.
what kind of case do you have? Can you post pictures of your system?

dariedel2  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, September 1, 2015 12:28:31 PM(UTC)
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I tried to upload picture, but it was too large size file for this forum. I will upload downsized file tonight. But I have a 2U Pesante case from Modu.

I have all my power wires twisted as well.

It's difficult to do A/B testing between having Oversampling bypassed vs. not because when not I can't get lock for more than a few seconds, but I wonder if I can even tell the difference.

Brian or Russ: Is the sound difference between Oversampling On vs. Off mostly theoretical or am I really doing my ears a disservice? Also, is there any chance with the firmware changes from a couple years ago that the OFF position for the oversampling is really ON (because turning it off to make it work seems counter-intuitive)?

Anyway, I have to say again even with Oversampling turned to Bypass, the sound is still quite good and my system works this way. But as this is a DIY project, I want to get it all exactly right even if I can't quite hear the difference with my ears (because that's what we audio nuts do, right?)

Thanks,
Doug
vinste  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, September 1, 2015 1:41:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dariedel2 Go to Quoted Post
I tried to upload picture, but it was too large size file for this forum. I will upload downsized file tonight. But I have a 2U Pesante case from Modu.

I see. This is a big case where I suppose you have power supply + dac inside. Are the amps inside too?

From what I have experienced, I would say that your power supply EMI is too high for usbstreamer+buffalo couple.
This is very striking in my system how it locks perfectly once the lid of my case closed, and immediately unlocks as soon as the lid is open ( = as soon as the dac is next to its power supply without shield).
Don't you have another case to isolate usbstreamer+buffalo+output stages?
That would be worth a try...

dariedel2  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, September 2, 2015 9:37:21 AM(UTC)
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Vinste/Brian,

Here is photo of my setup.

Thanks,
Doug
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vinste  
#16 Posted : Saturday, September 5, 2015 4:38:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dariedel2 Go to Quoted Post
Vinste/Brian,

Here is photo of my setup.

Thanks,
Doug


Nice setup!
You might have the possibility to add some metallic separators in order to split the power supply part and the dac part (some kind of walls around the usbstreamer/dac/IVYs). It would surely not hurt, and might allow you to use the Buffalo reclocking.

On my side, after a few days of use, here is how it runs, with oversampling filter and reclocking activated (SW2.4=ON):
- DPLL forced at 1x 'Medium': unlocks from time to time (2 to 3 times an hour)
- DPLL set to 1x 'Default': no unlock since around 5 hours listening.
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