Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Login


Options
View
Go to last post Go to first unread
hisense  
#1 Posted : Saturday, April 3, 2010 8:37:10 AM(UTC)
hisense

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 4/18/2009(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: UK

I recently built up my Buff 2 with dual bipolar placid supplies. I have had a few issues with the placid supplies and now have unfortunately destroyed them both and have no idea why.

I was missing some 200R trimmers as the kits had 2k ones instead so i ordered them from Farnell and got a couple spare; the parts i got were the exact same parts supplied in the kit. Once fitted i tested the suppies and all was ok but they were very difficult to accurately adjust the current, it woudl vary wildly with very small adjustments of the trimmer, sometimes D5 or D6 would flicker if the current jumped too high. I swapped out one of the trimmers to see if it improved the adjustment control but it didn't. I managed to set them to 150ma and 15 v and had the dac running all of yesterday, it sounded great btw, easy improvement of the 32s. Today i took it back in the workshop to finish the case etc and checked the voltages and current, to my surprise one side of each supply had dropped and i couldnt measure any voltage across R2 on the left supply and R2 on the right supply.

I tried to adjust the trim pots to get the current up but could not get a reading across R1 or R2 then R2 on one supply burnt out complete with smoke and on the other the adjustment did not increase current but blew D6 instead.

I have tried to establish the extent of the damage, i know one led and resistor are toast for sure, i tried repairing one suplly with parts from the other so i could listen to the dac but replacing the toasted led and R2 didnt make any difference, D6 would light but again couldnt get any current across R2 so there is obviously more damage.

Any ideas where to look for the root casuse of the problem and what other parts might need replacing to repair the supplies? i checked the IVY111 board for shorts and it seems fine so no shorts on the load.

I have succesfully built and used placid's before so not sure what happened this time.

Thanks,

Luke
Russ White  
#2 Posted : Saturday, April 3, 2010 8:43:28 AM(UTC)
Russ White

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,979
Location: Nashville, TN

Thanks: 25 times
Was thanked: 89 time(s) in 83 post(s)
Some things to check:

Check for swapped parts (NPN for PNP or vice versa)
Check for diodes that might be installed backward. Check polarity.
Check for cold solder joints (open).
Check for shorts.
hisense  
#3 Posted : Sunday, April 4, 2010 8:08:34 AM(UTC)
hisense

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 4/18/2009(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: UK

Thanks Russ; i have made all of the checks and cannot find any problems except for two suspect solder pads for the positive legs of D5 and D6 which have lifted from the underside of the board, but this may have happened when i removed the damaged components. I'm sure they had good joints prior to the components being removed as both led's were functioning and the joints looked good. So no obvious cause found.

I am begining to think it may have been casused by my scopemeter, it may have been left in resistance measurement mode rather than mv and could have applied a small voltage across R1 / R2, could this cause the circuit to destroy R1 / R2 D5 / D6 VR1 / VR2?

I have managed to repair one of the placids by replacing R2, D5 and substited both VR1 and VR2 with fixed value resistors. The supply works perfectly now.

I am hoping replacing the same parts on the other supply will fix it. Is it preferable to have fixed value resistors in place of VR1 / VR2?

Being fairly inexperienced with electronics i cant make complete sense of the schematic and not sure how i caused the damage in the first place.


Very pleased with Buf 2,

Cheers,

Luke
hisense  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, April 6, 2010 9:48:38 AM(UTC)
hisense

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 4/18/2009(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: UK

After trying to repair and test my placid's for some time i have concluded that the original problem was casused whilst checking the current - both supplies were set to 50R as per the manual during build and worked perfectly on first powering but it seems when i touch the test probe onto R1 or R2 it causes a surge of current to pass through VR1 or VR2. This has been burning out the trim pots and causing the supply to fail.

BTW have experienced this with two different meters set to measure mv dc - one battery operated and one mains powered.

Question is i would like to know why as this is not normal?

I have put 7 ohm 0.6 watt resistors in place of VR1 and VR2 and replaced the led's, the supplys work fine, the current is approx 170ma per side and the voltage stable under load. But again if i touch my test probe onto R1 or R2 the fixed value resistors start to smoke at VR1 and VR2!!

both supplies are working and i can listen to the dac but i am concerned they are not working properly, any other tests i can make to verfiy correct performance?

My only test so far has been to set my scope to ac 50mv and check the outputs for noise and compare to the VD placid, they all look the same.

I can only assume their is some other fundamental problem. The power transistors are bolted to the case if that makes any difference?

If they are beyond proper repair i will order some replacement supplies - when will they be back in stock?

Thanks,

Luke
Brian Donegan  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, April 6, 2010 10:06:06 AM(UTC)
Brian Donegan

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,868
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 141 time(s) in 134 post(s)
It sounds like you have your meter probes in the Current measurement holes rather than the Voltage/Resistance measurement holes. This would mean they act like a short, so it would be like putting a piece of wire across the test points.
hisense  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, April 6, 2010 12:06:34 PM(UTC)
hisense

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 4/18/2009(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: UK

I thought the same - but both my fluke DVM and Philips scopemeter have the test leads in the correct sockets and are switched to the correct test settings.

I have have now found the cause - the test probes are sharp and have been making contact with the copper ground around R1 and R2 in a tiny area next to the resistor lead hole, this has been shorting the resistor leg to ground.

Looking at the schematic it seems this will only damage VR2 and all other components should be safe is this correct? Would you check or replace any other components just in case? I cant get the exact same led's you supply to replace D5 & D6 and have used a standard 2.5v green led, is it important for these to be exact equivilents of the original?

Another clasic case of user error, just pleased i found the cause!
opnordahl  
#7 Posted : Saturday, April 10, 2010 7:22:43 AM(UTC)
opnordahl

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 1/31/2009(UTC)
Posts: 18
Location: Norway

I think I have managed to do the same mistake. Fried two BP placid.

After I had measured the output voltage and adjusted this to 15V I tried to measure the voltage across R1 and R2 and I think I also manage to short to ground. When measuring the voltage from the top of the board this is a very easy mistake to do. It would possibly be wise to put a warning about this in the manual. The VR2 on both power supplies are damaged. All the LEDs are still on and the output voltage is still 15V. Is it enough to replace VR2 or is it likely that other components are damaged?

Edited by user Saturday, April 10, 2010 7:50:11 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

hisense  
#8 Posted : Saturday, April 10, 2010 11:12:21 AM(UTC)
hisense

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 4/18/2009(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: UK

Its likely just replacing VR2 will have it working fine - or you can use a fixed value resistor. I am finding 11r about perfect for a dual BP setup with ivy 3. Gives about 113ma

I would change R1 and R2 if both sides were shorted just in case these were damaged, they also get toasted pretty quick but they take more than the trimmers as they are 1w parts.

My supplies are working perfectly now - they seem quite resiliant. The only part that is easy to damage is the tiny round pads for D5 and D6 which lift from the underside of the board very easily - be very careful if you have to change these.
Brian Donegan  
#9 Posted : Saturday, April 10, 2010 11:40:56 AM(UTC)
Brian Donegan

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,868
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 141 time(s) in 134 post(s)
Quote:
The only part that is easy to damage is the tiny round pads for D5 and D6 which lift from the underside of the board very easily - be very careful if you have to change these.


If you have to, it is best to use a destructive removal method: I crush the tops with pliers, leaving just the pins, which I then heat and remove individually.
hisense  
#10 Posted : Sunday, April 11, 2010 2:20:25 PM(UTC)
hisense

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 4/18/2009(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: UK

Thanks for the removal tip Brian, makes a lot of sense
Mfly  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, April 13, 2010 7:48:28 AM(UTC)
Mfly

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 4/13/2010(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: The Netherlands

hisense wrote:
the test probes are sharp and have been making contact with the copper ground around R1 and R2 in a tiny area next to the resistor lead hole, this has been shorting the resistor leg to ground.


I had the same issue, and burned out VR2 this way. Got a lot more careful placing my test leads!
1543  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, April 21, 2010 1:05:09 PM(UTC)
1543

Rank: Member

Groups: Customer
Joined: 10/25/2006(UTC)
Posts: 11

Please let me know the correct value of VR3/VR4.
My Placid BP (V 2.1.2) kit contains 2 2K trimmers. In BOM they are listed as 10K. I guess 10K is the correct value, is it?

Could you please also check and correct the BOM of Placid V2.0.
R10 is in denoted in BOM with a value of 2K and in kit and circiut diagram with a value of 1K.
Russ White  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, April 21, 2010 6:18:29 PM(UTC)
Russ White

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,979
Location: Nashville, TN

Thanks: 25 times
Was thanked: 89 time(s) in 83 post(s)
Either value is actually just fine in the Placid BP. It would only effect the range of adjustment. You should be just fine.
1543  
#14 Posted : Thursday, April 22, 2010 2:37:59 AM(UTC)
1543

Rank: Member

Groups: Customer
Joined: 10/25/2006(UTC)
Posts: 11

Russ White wrote:
Either value is actually just fine in the Placid BP. It would only effect the range of adjustment. You should be just fine.


Thanks. I will use then the 2K Trimmers instead of 10K for Placid BP to supply the IVY III.
Rss Feed  Atom Feed
Users browsing this topic
GuestUser
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.