Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Login


Options
View
Go to last post Go to first unread
Son of Odin  
#1 Posted : Saturday, February 12, 2011 7:11:31 AM(UTC)
Son of Odin

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 2/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 39

Thanks: 8 times
Does Opus DAC upsample on its own?I know dual WM 8741 is capable of 24/192, but does Opus have an upsampler chip (like Crystal 8421) which brings 16/44.1 to 24/192?And can upsampling be bypassed, if one wishes to do so?

Also - Is it possible to take digital processed signal from digital board, before op-amps, and bring it to another analog board? I would like to do so, and use analog board of my Audio Note 2 DAC Signature.
I also wonder is this possible with Buffalo II DAC...Cause I would like to go that way.
Buffalo II DAC seems like the best option for me, but has anyone compared dual WM 8741 Opus to Buffalo II sonically?
What are the differences?

Anyone at all?

LeonvB  
#2 Posted : Saturday, February 12, 2011 8:21:36 AM(UTC)
LeonvB

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 5/23/2010(UTC)
Posts: 708
Location: Netherlands

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 48 time(s) in 45 post(s)
I'd read a few things here for the first few questions:
http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/dacs/WM8741/

There are no opamps on the Opus board, nor on the BII board.

I do not fully understand what you are trying to do, but if you want to use the I/V stage of the Audio Note: this is likely not a good match for the BII board.
glt  
#3 Posted : Saturday, February 12, 2011 11:26:36 AM(UTC)
glt

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 11/9/2007(UTC)
Posts: 453
Location: usa

Son of Odin wrote:
Does Opus DAC upsample on its own?...


Yes. You can bypass it with the dip switches. No upsampler chip because the DAC can upsample on its own.

Son of Odin wrote:

Buffalo II DAC seems like the best option for me, but has anyone compared dual WM 8741 Opus to Buffalo II sonically?
What are the differences?

Anyone at all?



Some people at head-fi have compared it. In general, Buffalo is "cleaner" more "extended"; Opus is "warmer". It probably depends a lot on whether you listen with speakers or headphones...
Brian Donegan  
#4 Posted : Saturday, February 12, 2011 11:29:36 AM(UTC)
Brian Donegan

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,868
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 141 time(s) in 134 post(s)
Quote:
It probably depends a lot on whether you listen with speakers or headphones...


... and output stage and it's implementation, and amplification stage (if any) and volume control, and, and... :)
Son of Odin  
#5 Posted : Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:49:03 PM(UTC)
Son of Odin

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 2/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 39

Thanks: 8 times

Hi, Thanks for all your answers.They are very helpful and really apreciatted.
I am trying to change the digital board of my DAC.I am actually forced to do so, as my original digital board just died few days ago.So I am looking for the best option.
Generally, Audio Note DAC2 Sig has non-oversampling digital board, and uses two 6922 tubes as analog output stage.
I was thinking about putting in another DAC chip,and chose dual WM 8741.
It seems like an upgrade to me.
The option that user may bypass oversampling is great for me.So I can choose both 24/192 or 16/44.1 at will, with a few DIP switches.Superb Drool

But then I came across the Buffalo II DAC.It seems even better, so now I am more in that direction.Think

LeonvB wrote:


I do not fully understand what you are trying to do, but if you want to use the I/V stage of the Audio Note: this is likely not a good match for the BII board.

I am not even sure what I/V stage is.I noticed that both B II and dual Opus have no op-amps, so digital signal can easily be brought to AN output analog tubed stage.

Why do you think B II will not work well in my AN DAC?What about Opus with 2 WM 8741?
Son of Odin  
#6 Posted : Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:53:18 PM(UTC)
Son of Odin

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 2/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 39

Thanks: 8 times
And also, does it make any sense (or makes any improvement) to add Metronome ASRC module to Opus dual-mono DAC?
LeonvB  
#7 Posted : Sunday, February 13, 2011 1:07:17 AM(UTC)
LeonvB

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 5/23/2010(UTC)
Posts: 708
Location: Netherlands

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 48 time(s) in 45 post(s)
Quote:
Why do you think B II will not work well in my AN DAC?What about Opus with 2 WM 8741?

To obtain the best possible performance of a DAC chip, you have to add an output stage with a correct load. If the output does not match with the chip, the output will become distorted. Don't get me wrong, you may still like the sound but if it's a mismatch the DAC certainly isn't performing at it best.
I don't have any data about the output stage in question other than that it's using tubes, so it could be a good match but also be a total mismatch to the DACs in question.
Son of Odin  
#8 Posted : Sunday, February 13, 2011 2:28:12 AM(UTC)
Son of Odin

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 2/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 39

Thanks: 8 times
Thanks Leon,

I will try to get more data on that
Son of Odin  
#9 Posted : Sunday, February 13, 2011 2:47:06 AM(UTC)
Son of Odin

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 2/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 39

Thanks: 8 times
glt wrote:
Son of Odin wrote:
Does Opus DAC upsample on its own?...


Yes. You can bypass it with the dip switches. No upsampler chip because the DAC can upsample on its own



Are you 100% sure about this?
And how complicated is to bypass upsampling with DIP switches, do you need any tools?
And if the DAC chip upsamples on its own, how can you bypass it?
You always have to push signal thru the DAC chip...
Keep in mind, I am pretty new to all this, so maybe these questions seem stupid for most of you, to me your replies are very helpful.

Here is the output stage of my DAC :
So, the question would be - Buffalo II or dual mono Opus?
Both seem great to me -I am now a little more towards the "warmer" sound of Opus

Edited by user Sunday, February 13, 2011 7:02:27 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Son of Odin attached the following image(s):
1xoverDACKit2_1_IVDiag1.jpg (78kb) downloaded 345 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
LeonvB  
#10 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 12:38:17 PM(UTC)
LeonvB

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 5/23/2010(UTC)
Posts: 708
Location: Netherlands

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 48 time(s) in 45 post(s)
Quote:
Are you 100% sure about this?
And how complicated is to bypass upsampling with DIP switches, do you need any tools?
And if the DAC chip upsamples on its own, how can you bypass it?
You always have to push signal thru the DAC chip...
Keep in mind, I am pretty new to all this, so maybe these questions seem stupid for most of you, to me your replies are very helpful.

Here is the output stage of my DAC :
So, the question would be - Buffalo II or dual mono Opus?
Both seem great to me -I am now a little more towards the "warmer" sound of Opus

A word of caution: from your posts I see you treat some ideas as being "truths". For some reason you seem to think upsampling always is bad, opamps need to be taken out, etc. Well truth be told: the earth isn't flat and the sun doesn't revolve around earth. I've used class A amps, and avoided opamps. Now I'm using a BII with IVY3, running into an UCD (class D) amp. It's a big improvement over my old Stello DA220 MKII with it's discrete output. Some ideas simply get replaced over time.
What I mean to say is that you perhaps should be a bit more open minded about the equipment you should consider. I know this is mainly about the repair of your current DAC, but building a new DAC with more improvements isn't that much more expensive if you follow the DIY road. I'd suggest a single BII with full Trident set, powered by a LCDPS and a IVY3 or Legato I/V stage powered by either a Placid BP or a LCBPS. It'll sound great.
Son of Odin  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:36:56 PM(UTC)
Son of Odin

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 2/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 39

Thanks: 8 times
Hi,

I am more of a guy who likes to try things.Keeping my options opened (as to upsample or not) is a good thing for me, as I am willing to experiment with the sound.
I've also tried class-D (B&O ICE), does not cut it for me.I don't think op-amps are bad,or upsampling is.
I just like to keep all options opened.
LeonvB  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, February 15, 2011 3:28:22 PM(UTC)
LeonvB

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 5/23/2010(UTC)
Posts: 708
Location: Netherlands

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 48 time(s) in 45 post(s)
Quote:
I am more of a guy who likes to try things.Keeping my options opened (as to upsample or not) is a good thing for me, as I am willing to experiment with the sound.

That's an excellent take on things, which unfortunately outside the DIY realm can be very costly if you make mistakes. And that actually is also one of the biggest problems here: we can tell you how you should build an excellent DAC, but in the end that's not a guarantee that you will like it. The various TPA modules are quite affordable though, and the flexibility they offer you should help you build something you like somehow. The ability to use different I/V stages is one of the advantages of that flexible approach.

As a sidenote: IMO the ICE modules are more about value, and in particular the value they present for manufacturers. These are 100-300$ modules that go in amps often costing 1100-4000$ per channel.
Son of Odin  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, February 16, 2011 3:46:37 PM(UTC)
Son of Odin

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 2/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 39

Thanks: 8 times
Yes, I am actually dissapointed with the sound of ICE.
My friend also added tube buffer with 6922 tube, it helped a lot.
But still I am not for ICE modules.
Twisted pear is great for me, because of all the possibilities.

Does anyone know this about Buffalo II:

This means that I feed it with native 16/44.1 and it does everything on its own?
It resamples to more than 1.5 GHz?
And does it raise 16 bits to 24 or 32?
NicMac  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, February 16, 2011 4:29:34 PM(UTC)
NicMac

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 2/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 299
Location: Italy

Son of Odin wrote:

This means that I feed it with native 16/44.1 and it does everything on its own?
It resamples to more than 1.5 GHz?
And does it raise 16 bits to 24 or 32?

Yes, yes and yes.
Russ White  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, February 16, 2011 4:42:02 PM(UTC)
Russ White

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,979
Location: Nashville, TN

Thanks: 25 times
Was thanked: 89 time(s) in 83 post(s)
Only 1.5Mhz. :)
Son of Odin  
#16 Posted : Monday, February 21, 2011 3:55:19 AM(UTC)
Son of Odin

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 2/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 39

Thanks: 8 times
I have troubles with ordering Buffalo II.
I just get a "on sale now - refresh page" and "sold out" underneath for more than 2 days now
And I just can't get any answer thru TP e-mail system
Brian Donegan  
#17 Posted : Thursday, February 24, 2011 7:25:53 AM(UTC)
Brian Donegan

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,868
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 141 time(s) in 134 post(s)
The Buffalos went on sale last Saturday, and as is typical, sold out very quickly (minutes). I really need to fix the code on the web page to update the timer stuff automatically, but at this point it requires that I go in there and manually update the text. I have been really busy with my real job these past few weeks, so getting web page text updates takes a back seat (sorry).

Rss Feed  Atom Feed
Users browsing this topic
GuestUser (11)
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.