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klo  
#1 Posted : Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:53:48 AM(UTC)
klo

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Hi,

I intend to begin with a simple setup by using 5V DC supply and a step up tranny to directly connect B-II to Amp. I have a few queries,

1. Would 5VDC 400mA supply be sufficient?

2. Can I connection OUT_- and OUT_+ together to the transformer SE Input pin?
2. What is the impedence out from B-II? The tranny input impedence specified to be between 2~6 ohm. If its higher, any suggestion to better match it?
3. Would 28dB step up provide acceptable gain level?

Thanks for the advise

Edited by user Sunday, January 30, 2011 7:12:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

klo  
#2 Posted : Monday, January 31, 2011 9:12:47 AM(UTC)
klo

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Hi,

I just want to confirm I am not going to damage the unit by first using a 5V supply instead of Placid as the transformer that I ordered doesnt seem right, I am on 230V and I have not received confirmation if this transformer supports 230VAC
glt  
#3 Posted : Monday, January 31, 2011 10:21:36 AM(UTC)
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That is what I did when I first got the BII: http://hifiduino.files.w...com/2010/03/p1020573.jpg
The input plug, I salvaged from another board and the components are just used to filter noise. I adjusted it to 5.4V but 5V should work fine. Just make sure the transformer is regulated and measure it with a resistor to simulate ~400mA of load. Do not exceed 5.5V.
klo  
#4 Posted : Monday, January 31, 2011 10:32:04 AM(UTC)
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Great! Thanks for the affirmation on regulated power required.
Brian Donegan  
#5 Posted : Monday, January 31, 2011 10:40:39 AM(UTC)
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DO NOT connect +Out and -Out. Use +Out and GND.
klo  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, February 1, 2011 9:55:22 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for the clarification Brian
Russ White  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, February 1, 2011 2:06:40 PM(UTC)
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Just to be clear. As long as the primary is not connected to GND it is perfectly ok to use +OUT and -OUT, one into each lead of the primary. When done this way there will be no differential DC, but there will be ~1.65V common mode DC.

You would not want to use just +OUT and GND unless you use a capacitor to block the DC.

You also would not connect +OUT and -OUT to the same lead (short them).

Edited by user Tuesday, February 1, 2011 2:07:11 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

klo  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, February 8, 2011 1:25:31 AM(UTC)
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Hi Russ, Thanks for the advise! The sound is impressive compared to my MSB DAC.

I had isolated the ground for the primary which was connected to the secondaries, but there was a loud hum. However, After i reverted the grounding, the hum was greatly reduced, abeit still there in the background. Bypassing the transformer doesnt help. I tried using a different psu same thing. I had also removed all other connections to the amp too. Is there any way to eliminate this? Thank you.

Edited by user Tuesday, February 8, 2011 3:22:33 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Russ White  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, February 8, 2011 10:26:39 AM(UTC)
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You are going to have to track down the source of the hum. Its either a ground loop or EMI. It not really realted to the DAC itself.
klo  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, February 9, 2011 8:58:30 AM(UTC)
klo

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Hi Russ,

Thanks for the affirmation that I had not caused this issue somehow, I managed to locate the source to my CDP. Any suggestion on how to isolate this problem?
klo  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, February 9, 2011 11:07:17 AM(UTC)
klo

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Russ,

Could you comment the grounding between primary and secondary and affect on galvanic isolation and EMI/RFI.

It seems that if the grounds were not tied together, EMI/RFI would be 'amplified' by trannies. On the other hand, when grounds are tied together, no galvanic isolation thus ground loop would contaminate the signal.

Thanks for your insight into the tradeoffs and tips to overcome this.
Russ White  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, February 9, 2011 5:41:43 PM(UTC)
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This is one reason I don't use transformers. So its hard for me to comment. :)
klo  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, February 9, 2011 7:14:08 PM(UTC)
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I.C :O

May I know the best practices for grounding the DAC, and should the power ground be lifted? Thanks
dboy  
#14 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 7:04:37 AM(UTC)
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Hi,

This sounds quite similar to an issue I am having.

I have Sowter 3575 (10K:10K isolating transformers) as an output stage to my Buffalo II. Primaries are connected to +out and -out. with the secondaries going to my TVC and the signal then going to my Charlize II amp I get beautiful music - a lovely clean spacious sound.

I then tried to remove the TVC (since volumite works very well) and send the outputs of the 3575s directly to the Charlize amp inputs. Music comes through, but so does a loud humming noise, like mains hum. I went back and reversed what I did. Charlize & Buffalo work fine together with the TVC in the signal path - no humming even with TVC set to max volume which sends the signal straight through. Removed the TVC again and the humming is back. The 3575's ensure galvanic isolation so this should not be a ground loop issue(?), and every part of the system other than the TVC is the same between the setup that works fine and the setup that hums.

I have a floating ground for the DAC and my power transformer is housed in a seperate box. This may be a different issue to the one klo is having, but does sound similar. I would greatly appreciate any helpful suggestions to make this work without the TVC in the signal path.

Thanks,

Dave
NicMac  
#15 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 8:55:32 AM(UTC)
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dboy wrote:
I would greatly appreciate any helpful suggestions to make this work without the TVC in the signal path.

To get yourself a IVY or Legato I/V-stage in place of the transformer seems a fairly viable option.....
It will not make your Sowter work in the application, but it may make you stop trying :)
dboy  
#16 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 1:39:36 PM(UTC)
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Well, we're in danger of hijacking this thread here, but I'll bite.

Have you personally compared the sound of a decent transformer output stage versus the TP solid state ones?

Before going this route I read a lot of forum posts, and the impression I got was that IVY gave more details whereas a good transformer gave a relaxed, analogue style presentation that several folks seemed to prefer. I paid my money and took my chance, based of course on what my preferences generally tend to be.

Through the TVC I have no complaints about the sound of Buffalo II with Sowters - the frequency range is all there, the sound is musical, detailed, spacious. Music sounds good. I just gotta fix that hum when the TVC is removed and hear the system I hoped to hear - i.e. no caps, opamps, switches, plugs/sockets at all in the signal path. Just one transformer and some wire.

Steno  
#17 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 2:47:37 PM(UTC)
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Hi Russ,
I’m Stefano Mainardi from Italy and this is my first post! I bought a Buffalo II DAC with Placid and Placid BP power supplies and a Legato I/V stage, just to start :-).
My goal is to build a transformer I/V stage and I think your Buffalo II is the perfect base for that kind of experiments: first of all, to use a transformer connected between OUT+ and OUT- I need to be
sure to get the same offset voltage/current at both terminals. In this way there will be no DC current flowing into the primary winding…Did you ever measured the differences between the offsets
( (Offset_out+) – (offset_out-) )? With no or very small DC offset I can use a “standard” interstage transformer (usually with no gapped core) , otherwise I’ll need to think about a different kind of
transformer to avoid the “evil” effects of saturation. Or I can consider a transformer designed for push pull application with the common tap connected to GND. What do you think about these solutions, even if you say you don't want to use transformers? :-) And what about the primary impedance/reflected impedance? I’m thinking of connecting the secondary windings (balanced) directly to the preamp (4K input impedance) with a transformer’s turn ratio of 1. You say it’s better to keep the impedance seen by the DAC output reasonably low for THD+N issues so, if it’s possible, it would be better to buy a transformer with low impedance windings. Am I right? I’m a little confused about this issue, it’s the first time I work with this kind of connections/devices. Last thing: why don't use the primary winding resistance as I/V resistor? In many cases I saw a low value resistor in parallel to the primary windings...
Thanks in advance.
Regards
Stefano

PS: sorry for my english!
NicMac  
#18 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 3:53:23 PM(UTC)
NicMac

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Hi dboy,
You are not highjacking the thread! It is a thread about transformers problems and my suggestion to try one of the TP I/V-stages was/is possibly an "off-topic" one. No - I have not compared a transformer with the IVY or the Legato for the Buffalo. I have also been reading quite a bit about buffalo output stages over the last few years and it seems to be those that choose the transformer route that reports most problems/difficulties. Can you point me to anybody that has compared the transformer solution with a Legato, which is regularly reported to sound more "analog and laid back"?
Anyway, I have zero experience with transformers (besides those for power and digital isolation :-)) so I guess I have nothing to help you guys with!
Cheers and fruitful experimentation,
Nic
Steno  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:47:00 AM(UTC)
Steno

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Hi NicMac,
I'm going to compare the two solutions, so I'll keep you informed about my tests. But I need to wait for al least 2 months because Buffalo II, Placid and Legato are on their way to my home. :-) I too have no experience with transformer, but I think it should be the best way to do the I/V conversion, no active components, no selected and matched components, no power supply issues. Sure enough, the transformer must be designed and made very well.
Stefano
dboy  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, February 15, 2011 5:39:27 AM(UTC)
dboy

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Hi Nic,

When I first placed the orders for parts to build my DAC I don't think Legato was actually being sold. I'm sure it does sound absolutely lovely - Russ & Brian are clearly brillant at what they do and their products all seem top class. I just went down one path and I've heard enough good stuff along the way to keep going for a bit, hopefully until I get it right. After that who knows?

Hi Stefano,

Looking forward to reading your thoughts when you get things up and running. Your reasons for being interested in transformers match closely with mine. And although in some ways it is a simpler solution, getting support can be more difficult since we are matching products not specifically designed for each other. Good luck!

Dave
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