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Tom Caulfield  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2009 8:14:47 PM(UTC)
Tom Caulfield

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I'm anticipating building six channels of 32S for a surround DAC, fed by a Lynx AES extender from a Lynx L22. Would it be practical just to use the transformer specified for the SPDIF 4:1 MUX board, on a tiny outrigger board (with the appropriate termination resistors) into the 32S SPDIF receiver (with it's termination resistors removed), rather than three SPDIF 4:1 MUX board assemblies? The money is a consideration for three SPDIF MUX, but not a killer. I however am reluctant to insert the CS4816 in the path if that can be avoided.

Also, could you comment on the output buffer, if that is what IC11 and IC18 are, on their identity and drive capability?

Thanks,
Tom
Brian Donegan  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2009 8:19:43 PM(UTC)
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ICs 9, 10, 11 and 12 form the IVYII stages. They are OPA1632. They can supply 150mA/channel.

Using an offboard with resistors would work fine. You could bypass the S/PDIF comparator circuit as you will have TTL voltage, then you can leave the on board terminators alone, as you won't be going through them.

Edited by user Wednesday, April 8, 2009 8:22:00 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Tom Caulfield  
#3 Posted : Thursday, April 9, 2009 7:30:07 PM(UTC)
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Thanks Brian for the quick response. I think I understand, and your answer is more than sufficient for my planning purposes. I'll at least go order three of the transformers you spec for the SPDIF 4:1 Mux board. I'm guessing that the ESS method of implementing a SPDIF receiver is better than the Crystal. Their White Paper sure makes a case for that. Do you guys agree?

Can you also comment on the function of IC 9,10, 11 and 12? I remember Russ commenting on DIY when he posted the pic of the bare new 32 PCB that "don't assume all the 8 pad places are for opamps". I'm interested only because the filter outputs appear to be going through IC9 and IC10.

Thanks again,
Tom
Tom Caulfield  
#4 Posted : Friday, April 10, 2009 6:59:58 PM(UTC)
Tom Caulfield

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Opps, I now see the dumbness of my IC# question! I read what you said Brian, but didn't tie it to your PCB pic because I thought the chips with the dimples and thermal pads underneath were the OPA1632's. Can you comment on the function of the 4 unlabeled chips directly in line with both sides of the DAC?

Thanks again,
Tom

Edited by user Friday, April 10, 2009 7:00:43 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Russ White  
#5 Posted : Friday, April 10, 2009 7:08:06 PM(UTC)
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There are two opa1632s per channel, One forms an I.V converter, the other a hybrid buffer with a common mode correction cct which makes it work well both single ended and balanced.

Cheers!
Russ
Russ White  
#6 Posted : Friday, April 10, 2009 9:33:31 PM(UTC)
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One of the lateral ICs is a dual integrator which sets the common mode voltage for each of the op1632s on each side. The other is an extremely low noise low output impedance voltage regulator. :)

Cheers!
Russ
Tom Caulfield  
#7 Posted : Saturday, April 11, 2009 2:46:18 PM(UTC)
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Thanks Russ, I'm pre-ordering three :D
Tom Caulfield  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, April 22, 2009 1:36:36 PM(UTC)
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Hi Guys,

I've been studying the differences between AES3 (AES/EBU) and SPDIF and have a couple of questions please. It appears to be more than just a level and balance/unbalanced difference. While the audio data is the same, the channel status bits are completely different between the two. My primary question is what the ESS9018 will do when presented with AES formatted data (professional vs consummer), corrected for level differences. Does it ignore those channel status bits, or recognize them a AES format, or just reject the data?

If it's the latter, I have a couple of choices. The Lynx AES card I'm using has a format change option, but I have not confirmed whether it does more than just change the level. A second option is use the AES input to your 4:1 SPDIF Mux/Receiver card (X3 cards).

My second question is whether you believe the SPDIF receiver on the ESS9018 is superior to the Cirrus CS8416 for minimum jitter in clock reconstruction. The ESS White Paper is very persuasive with their approach.

I appreciate your thoughts,

Tom

Edited by user Wednesday, April 22, 2009 1:39:54 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Russ White  
#9 Posted : Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:40:06 AM(UTC)
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The ES9018 recognizes both consumer (SPDIF) and prefessional (AES) formats and decodes them differently.

The according the ESS the DPLL method that the ESS9018 uses to decode SPDIF is superior to the CS8416. I would say this is true. I also think the SPDIF functionality is much improved from the ES9008.

Cheers!
Russ

Edited by user Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:23:47 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

NicMac  
#10 Posted : Thursday, April 23, 2009 7:12:35 AM(UTC)
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Russ,
this leads me to the following questions:

1) Are you saying that it is likely to be better to "bypass" the MUX with SPDIF sources?
2) Is this true also if the MUX and B32S are connected via SPDIF or only when they are connected via I2S?
3) Does the ES9018, like the B24, auto detect TTL level SPDIF even if jumper-configured for "non-SPDIF"?

Considering the decoding versatility and quality of the ES9018 maybe some kind of "mechanical" input selection device (SPDIF, AES, I2S, DSD...), a little more compact than a stack of OTTO's, would be a nice add-on. I love OTTO but a similar sized (or preferably) smaller 3:1 switch, or even 4:1 would be great!

Nic
Tom Caulfield  
#11 Posted : Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:10:26 AM(UTC)
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Thanks Russ!
That's just exactly the info I needed to choose between the RME and Lynx AES boards I've been considering.

Thanks again,
Tom
Russ White  
#12 Posted : Thursday, April 23, 2009 4:50:54 PM(UTC)
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Sidenius112 wrote:
Russ,
this leads me to the following questions:

1) Are you saying that it is likely to be better to "bypass" the MUX with SPDIF sources?
2) Is this true also if the MUX and B32S are connected via SPDIF or only when they are connected via I2S?
3) Does the ES9018, like the B24, auto detect TTL level SPDIF even if jumper-configured for "non-SPDIF"?

Considering the decoding versatility and quality of the ES9018 maybe some kind of "mechanical" input selection device (SPDIF, AES, I2S, DSD...), a little more compact than a stack of OTTO's, would be a nice add-on. I love OTTO but a similar sized (or preferably) smaller 3:1 switch, or even 4:1 would be great!

Nic


1) Well all I can say is its definitely no worse. :)
2) If you use the MUX with SPDIF out it is a direct pass through.
3) Yes.


Cheers!
Russ
manaox2  
#13 Posted : Monday, April 27, 2009 9:24:09 AM(UTC)
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Russ White wrote:


1) Well all I can say is its definitely no worse. :)
2) If you use the MUX with SPDIF out it is a direct pass through.
3) Yes.


Cheers!
Russ


Wondering what is your opinion on the 9008 receiver then?
navstar  
#14 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2009 5:47:07 AM(UTC)
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Hi guys!

I'm working up the parts and circuit to add AES inputs to three new Buffalo 32S cards. Not knowing the relevance of the comparator circuit on the SPDIF input, I think I would like to use it if it has benefit for AES levels. With the possible exception of using the DSD input capability at some future date, the cards would only ever be used for AES inputs. I have no requirement ever for the SPDIF input capability, so alternating component values or circuitry killing future SPDIF usage is completely acceptable.

With that said, is the SPDIF input circuit you are using lifted from the ES Evaluation board, and/or can you recommend a suitable input circuit for a transformer coupled AES source?

Thanks in advance,

Tom
Brian Donegan  
#15 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2009 6:17:30 AM(UTC)
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You can likely bypass the comparator, as it is just there for level shifting to TTL, the AES/EBU should have high enough voltage already.

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opnordahl  
#16 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2009 12:31:53 PM(UTC)
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I am planning to hock up the Buffalo 32 to a Lynx Two B sound card. This card can output both SPDIF and AES/EBU. Will there be any benefits using the AES/EBU over the SPDIF?
NicMac  
#17 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2009 2:37:44 PM(UTC)
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I was wondering the same thing. It looks like the MUX (from where the circuit above is taken from) converts the AES/EBU signal to SPDIF just after it arrives. Also it seems that GNDs will be connected between the sound card and the MUX if using AES/EBU, but not if using SPDIF. I'm not an expert so I might be wrong.
Russ White  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:27:46 PM(UTC)
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You don't have to wire the input side of the AES GND if you don't want to. But in practice I have never seen any harm.

Wall that the cct above does is shift the signal level down to consumer level. The protocol is still AES.

The benefit to balanced AES/EBU is that you will get less line interference because of the higher levels and balanced transmission up to the source. Other than that there really is no advantage.

Cheers!
Russ
sleep888  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:20:31 AM(UTC)
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Russ,

If my understanding is correct, the input quality for Buffalo should be I2S > AES > SPDIF, am I right?

I am wondering if there is a way that I can connect AES input direct to new Buffalo32 without MUX-CS8416? I checked all documents which I can found, but didn't get a clear answer.

Thanks in advance.
Roland
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