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nacder  
#1 Posted : Saturday, April 18, 2009 4:56:24 AM(UTC)
nacder

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It seems the quad op-amp LME4974 used in Ballsie is replaced by a better spec LME49740. Will the new Ballsie kit come with this LME49740 instead?

I am interested to use this Ballsie board as a buffer after the Joshua Tree to drive amps (balanced input) with lower input impedance. When will the Ballsie kit be available again?

Thanks
Brian Donegan  
#2 Posted : Saturday, April 18, 2009 5:06:00 AM(UTC)
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The opamp on the original Ballsie is actually the LME49720.

The new Ballsie Lite uses a single LME49720.

Edited by user Saturday, April 18, 2009 8:24:51 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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nacder  
#3 Posted : Saturday, April 18, 2009 9:47:26 AM(UTC)
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Hi Brian,

It seems the new Ballsie Lite does not have buffered balanced output. Do I need to go for Ballsie instead?

Thanks
Russ White  
#4 Posted : Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:12:39 PM(UTC)
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I would suggest an IVY. :)

It would work very well after the JT.

You can calculate for the 750R output impedance of the JT.

So a 1K feedback resistor on the IVY would get you a bit more than unity gain. 750R would be unity gain.

I have used this setup before. It is awesome.

Cheers!
Russ

Edited by user Saturday, April 18, 2009 1:14:43 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

nacder  
#5 Posted : Saturday, April 18, 2009 5:54:59 PM(UTC)
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Hi Russ,

Sounds good, so when will the IVY II be available?

Btw, can Counterpoint be used for this buffer application as well?
Russ White  
#6 Posted : Saturday, April 18, 2009 7:56:05 PM(UTC)
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IVY II will be coming in the next month or so.

Counterpoint is not really designed for your application.

Honestly the normal IVY is pretty ideal for what you want to do. IVY II won't really be any better in this particular application.

Cheers!
Russ
nacder  
#7 Posted : Sunday, April 19, 2009 12:43:48 AM(UTC)
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Hi Russ,

Thanks for the recommendation.

So when using IVY as a JT buffer with unity gain, should I set R1-R4 to 750ohm, and use jumpers for R5-8 & R17-20? What value should I use for C1-C4?
nacder  
#8 Posted : Monday, April 20, 2009 7:44:21 AM(UTC)
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Hi Russ,

Was my calculation correct for IVY buffer?
What values to use for C1-C4?
Russ White  
#9 Posted : Monday, April 20, 2009 9:57:59 AM(UTC)
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Correct.

R1-4 750R
R5-8 Jumper
R17-20 omit
C1-4 Omit

The rest you can leave alone. :)

Cheers!
Russ
Russ White  
#10 Posted : Monday, April 20, 2009 10:03:13 AM(UTC)
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Even better,

R1-4 1K
R5-8 221R
R17-20 omit
C1-4 omit

This will make any minor variation of JT (A few ohms) output impedance completely unnoticeable.

Cheers!
Russ
nacder  
#11 Posted : Monday, April 20, 2009 5:38:21 PM(UTC)
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Hi Russ,

I see your point, thanks for the suggestion. (and also wonder if something like R1-4=2K, R5-8=1.24K might be even better Think).

I am planning for compatability with other power amps of higher input impedance (e.g. >10K) as well. In those cases direct output from JT is feasible, but perhaps not as good as having IVY to drive a normal length cable (e.g. 1.5m).

Since you have already built and used an IVY buffer, I would like to hear your opinion if there is any noticeable (sound quality-wise) advantage to provide for an additional set of output from JT directly (for high input impedanance load), or I should just save the hassles and connect everything to the IVY buffer output.

Thanks
Russ White  
#12 Posted : Monday, April 20, 2009 8:54:02 PM(UTC)
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Hi,

I see you are catching on quickly!

Very good!

In practice I have found that with targets of 10K and higher the 750 ohm output impedance of the JT(I or II) presents little impediment to excellent musical reproduction. With such short cable lengths even relatively high capacitance cable should have little effect. I would personally try to go directly out of the Joshua Tree first. if you notice something lacking in the high end then add the IVY as either you or I described, either should work just fine.

Ideally I prefer to drive from the lowest possible output impedance, but for very short cables into a high input impedance this becomes less and less important.

Cheers!
Russ

Edited by user Tuesday, April 21, 2009 4:24:42 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

nacder  
#13 Posted : Friday, April 24, 2009 9:01:52 AM(UTC)
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Russ,

I did some quick studies on the differential opamp in IVY, and found that while termination for the resistive JT output is not very important, assuming a balanced JT config with 750R each leg, perhaps the best value to use for R5-8 is around 750ohm, with the corresponding R1-4 set at around 1.5K for unity gain. Hope this is useful for sharing.

While I will likely adopt IVY as the JT output buffer, I have another requirement to find a good buffer for a source with a high 20K output impedance (again very much resistive like JT) on its +ve and -ve pins relative to ground. I wonder if I can still use IVY for this case, setting R5-8 to 20K and R1-4 to 40K. Do you think IVY is still very suitable or I may encounter noise problem using such high feedback resistance?

Thanks in advance for your advice.
Russ White  
#14 Posted : Friday, April 24, 2009 2:13:20 PM(UTC)
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sure 750R and 1.5K would be fine, but distortion goes up a little as you go over 1K in the feedback loop.


Cheers!
Russ
Russ White  
#15 Posted : Friday, April 24, 2009 5:14:57 PM(UTC)
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For a high input impedance the best thing to do is to use an instrumentation amplifier in front of the OPA1632.

We have a board that does this. Its called "Mesh" but I don't think we have it for sale yet. I will see if we can rectify that. :)
nacder  
#16 Posted : Friday, April 24, 2009 7:47:36 PM(UTC)
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Hi Russ,

Any info on this new Mesh board?
Can you share an early schematic?

Thanks
Russ White  
#17 Posted : Friday, April 24, 2009 8:41:11 PM(UTC)
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Sure here is the schematic.

It's a multi-purpose board I created to use as a driver(including headphone amp) and an active filter. So it is marked with some spots as C/R. The reason is that those spots could either be a C or an R depending on if it is used for high or low pass filter. :)

In your case you would simply omit any filter caps and just set it for whatever gain you need.

It a sort of a hard thing to kit, because how you use it is completely up to the user. :)

But if you want a couple PCBs just let Brian know, and he can get you some.

Cheers!
Russ

Edited by user Friday, April 24, 2009 8:42:53 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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nacder  
#18 Posted : Saturday, April 25, 2009 5:39:37 AM(UTC)
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Hi Russ,

Thanks for sharing.
What is the IC2? I wonder if this is still LME49720.
What values are you using for RZ1/2 (my guess is 470K)?

Cheers
Russ White  
#19 Posted : Saturday, April 25, 2009 6:39:32 AM(UTC)
Russ White

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Sure LME49720 is probably what I would use, but there are lots of duals that would be just fine.

You can choose any value of RZ1/2 that suits your needs. I typically use 47K-100K. But you could even omit them if you want.

:)
nacder  
#20 Posted : Saturday, April 25, 2009 6:53:51 AM(UTC)
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Hi Russ,

For a balanced output pure buffer, do you think it is better to just take the output after the instrumentation amp instead of going thru the symmetrical amp? Is there any advantage to have this second stage?

Thanks
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