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Hey everyone, I'm currently using a Buffalo v1.2 + Counterpoints with "stock" power supplies. Seeing that Counterpoint is pretty demanding when it comes to power supplies (see "Connecting RG1/RG2 to GND pad" thread for example), I was wondering if a move from LCDPS/LCBPS to a sigma11 / sigma22 power supplies setup would yield any benefits.. Any thoughts? Thank you! :) Edited by user Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:18:59 AM(UTC)
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The Counterpoint isn't particularly demanding on it's supplies. It just draws more current than the LCBPS is configured for in it's stock setup. Dropping the the value of the power resistors from 10R to about 2.7R (or even bypassing them) will increase the current they can deliver.
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Brian Donegan wrote:The Counterpoint isn't particularly demanding on it's supplies. It just draws more current than the LCBPS is configured for in it's stock setup. Dropping the the value of the power resistors from 10R to about 2.7R (or even bypassing them) will increase the current they can deliver. Thanks Brian. Indeed, bypassing the resistors seems to solve the problem. Still, I was wondering if there is a point (as in sound quality improvement) in upgrading to better power supplies. It's not that the stock ones are not good but I'm sure you agree there are some better ones out there (there is always something better - that's the problem esp. once you're into DIY!). As Placid (which I was waiting for) is not planned to be released soon, I did some brief research and came accross the Sigmas. If you have something else to suggest, of course you are more than welcome to do so! :) Edited by user Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:40:47 AM(UTC)
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Using a Sigma would absolutely work well.
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Brian Donegan wrote:Using a Sigma would absolutely work well. Now the question remains: will it work better (sound quality wise) than LCBPS/LCDPS? I recall reading that Russ has something else under his sleeve now that Placid has been put on hold! Any news on that?  Edited by user Thursday, April 16, 2009 11:05:20 AM(UTC)
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Brian Donegan wrote:The Counterpoint isn't particularly demanding on it's supplies. It just draws more current than the LCBPS is configured for in it's stock setup. Dropping the the value of the power resistors from 10R to about 2.7R (or even bypassing them) will increase the current they can deliver. Will a 3W rating for 2.7R replacement be fine? Thanks, Nic
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Yes. 3W 2.7R is fine.
:)
The LCBPS and LCDPS are perfectly well suited for the Buffalo32S. You not likely to see much return for changing them.
The excellent numbers that were measured were using stock LCBPS, and LCDPS. And I can attest, it sounds superb.
Cheers!
Russ
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What about the dual-mono configuration for the analog stages? How much of an improvement is there over a single ps?
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Russ White wrote:You not likely to see much return for changing them. We're well past the diminishing returns line with this DAC! ;) I'm sure 32S as well as the old with Counterpoints sound great with LCBPS/LCDPS but please get back to us when you have compared it to a 32S using Placid (or, even better, that new PSU you had in mind to "replace" the Placid project)! :)
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Russ and Brian, based on your experience, where would you think there'll be a greater improvement from better regulation: in the analog (VA 6.6V) or the digital (VD 6V) supply of Buffalo? I was also wondering... Would it be better to just add a super-reg like SuperTeddyReg after the LCDPS to power the Buffalo board instead of changing the LCDPS for a Sigma11 (for either VA or VD or both)? Edited by user Monday, April 20, 2009 11:23:59 AM(UTC)
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I personally don't think you will see much improvement, and performance will be dominated by the onboard regulators, which are quite good.
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Brian Donegan wrote:I personally don't think you will see much improvement, and performance will be dominated by the onboard regulators, which are quite good. Which brings us to the VREF mod! :d/ Are you guys planning on releasing the board/kit at some point? I'm asking because I already have an order planned at Mouser. If there are no plans to release it soon, I'd like to include all the needed parts in this order. Thanks for the input!
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We have no plans to release a board for it.
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Brian Donegan wrote:We have no plans to release a board for it. Thanks Brian. Breadboard it is then!
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Shaman, do you think you can post your Mouser BOM? I'm putting together an order myself and would like to make sure I didn't go wrong with the parts selections. Also since it's going to be my first venture into breadboarding I would really appreciate it if you could take a few pictures of your effort :)
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neb001 wrote:Shaman, do you think you can post your Mouser BOM? I'm putting together an order myself and would like to make sure I didn't go wrong with the parts selections. Also since it's going to be my first venture into breadboarding I would really appreciate it if you could take a few pictures of your effort :) Sure thing. I'll get down to assembling the BOM tomorrow and as soon as it's ready I'll post it here. Not sure when everything will arrive though, so that I can start working on it. USA to Greece shouldn't take long but then it usually takes twice as long for the parcel to arrive at my doorstep! Gotta love Greek Post Office...  Edited by user Monday, April 20, 2009 3:10:17 PM(UTC)
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I've used two Sigma11 power supplies for my dual-mono opus test setup and didn't notice any real difference in sound, but I don't have golden ears. I'll be hooking up my buffalo + counterpoint setup using the sigma11's and a LCBPS. I also have a spare sigma22, but don't really plan on using it for the counterpoint in my final implementation. I feel that using the sigma11's is quite overkill for the job and a sigma22 would be ridiculous given the size and space required...but perhaps it's worth testing.
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neb001 wrote:I've used two Sigma11 power supplies for my dual-mono opus test setup and didn't notice any real difference in sound, but I don't have golden ears. I'll be hooking up my buffalo + counterpoint setup using the sigma11's and a LCBPS. I also have a spare sigma22, but don't really plan on using it for the counterpoint in my final implementation. I feel that using the sigma11's is quite overkill for the job and a sigma22 would be ridiculous given the size and space required...but perhaps it's worth testing. Thank you for your input Neb. I appreciate it! Brian has a solid point there about the onboard regulators of Buffalo doing all the hard work, so there is probably no reason to blame your ears for not hearing any difference. I'm sure there is a reason the TP guys went for more and better VRegs on the new board! ;) On the other hand, to quote Russ from diyaudio: Quote:As for feeding Buffalo with placid. I think it does help to feed the linear regulators from a clean supply. It gives them less junk to have to regulate out on the input side. I am feeding VA/VD from a placid. Now Counterpoint is a different beast, I think. If I'm not mistaken Placid was initially designed/tested as a Counterpoint power supply because recall Russ saying on diyaudio that Placid needs some work but, until then, LCBPS will be a great match for Counterpoint. Of course Placid has been now superseded by another design (my guess is because of thermal issues that didn't make it very user friendly when supplying the current Counterpoint demands), but I'm sure Russ saw some room for improvement to go on researching the subject. In any case, I'm thinking about going with a Sigma22 for Counterpoints and use the good ol' LCDPS for the Buffalo board. I will be getting a SuperTeddyReg for another project anyway so, if I'm not lazy, I might get down to testing it at various points on my Buffalo. If it does make a difference I can always order more. Based on what I've read so far VRef mod and AVCC are the safest bets for performance improvement when it comes to Buffalo+Counterpoint setups though. Edited by user Tuesday, April 21, 2009 12:25:16 AM(UTC)
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I just want to clarify, I've only had the sigma11's hooked up to the opus (ie wolfson micro dac), not the buffalo yet.
AMB has tested the sigma11 for noise and made the following comment in his tech highlights section on his sigma11 page:
"The output noise (unloaded) is less than 12µV (measured using a Tangent LNMP (low-noise measurement preamplifier) and a Fluke 187 50000-count DMM in ACmV mode). This is several times lower than the noise of an IC regulator based PSU tested under identical conditions."
So it does give me a warm fuzzy knowing that there isn't much noise coming through from them :) Make sure your case for your buffalo can fit the sigma22, at 6" x 3.5", it's quite a monster!
What are you planning on using the superteddyreg for? I also agree from what I've read it seems that VRef and AVCC are the most logical points to improve on, if at all possible.
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neb001 wrote:Make sure your case for your buffalo can fit the sigma22, at 6" x 3.5", it's quite a monster! No worries. I've planned everything out.. I can even fit a Sigma22 and two Sigma11s and still have space left! I picked a roomy case (full size SlimLine 1U from that great Italian guy at Modushop) so that I can add things (like a high-rez capable USB receiver) when needed without having to worry much. neb001 wrote:What are you planning on using the superteddyreg for? For the 5 Volt chip supply of my Truepath power amp. :)
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