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algar_emi  
#1 Posted : Sunday, October 5, 2014 10:04:27 PM(UTC)
algar_emi

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Hi. This Algar_emi, I finally managed to install my Buffalo II into an enclosure, but I'm still having the noise problem, sound like white noise on the Legato output (or Balanced and Single ended output.

My setup is: MUX CS8416 (USB, Optical, Coaxial, AES/EBU inputs), Buffalo II (with Trident shunts), LCDPS supplies for Buffalo & MUX with separate transfo, Dual mono Placid shunt regulators (with separate transfo) for dual Counterpoint I/V converters, custom Legato (only the headphone section) amplifier. Volumite volume control, custom MUX source selector switch/Led PCB.

Everything is working except there is a small noise (about 10-3 mvac) at the output. It is very frustrating. First I thought it was because I was using just one Placid and it was running out of power because the noise disappears if I'm using an external linear lab power supply to supply the Counterpoint. SO I ordered an other Placid and both supplies are not working with a comfortable 50-60ma overhead.

On my Placid (version 2.1.1) there is a provision to install an RC filter (C4-R7) on IC1 pin 2. The schematic is marked 'open' for both parts. I found that if I install C4 220pF/R7 2K2 )N JUST the Positive supply of one channel, the noise almost completely disappear on this channel. But if I try the same thing on the other Placid, the noise remains the same on the other channel.

As you can see my setup is very thing and I cannot use the new Placid HD. I want to use these two Placid really but at this point I'm about to ditch them...
Also the noise is reduce if I touch with a DVM test lead the Buffalo Current Output pin. Very strange.

All my supplies ground are star connected at just one point.

Any help appreciated.
Thanks
SB
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Brian Donegan  
#2 Posted : Sunday, October 5, 2014 11:18:30 PM(UTC)
Brian Donegan

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I believe this is the source of your noise...

UserPostedImage

Clock noise from the I2S lines into your analog power supply lines. These should be kept apart.

Edited by user Sunday, October 5, 2014 11:20:09 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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algar_emi  
#3 Posted : Sunday, October 5, 2014 11:54:10 PM(UTC)
algar_emi

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Also look at the Front panel. I put your logo and Cie name ;)
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algar_emi  
#4 Posted : Monday, October 6, 2014 12:02:40 AM(UTC)
algar_emi

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Hi. I tried to install shielding (grounded Mu-Metal sheet) between the I2S and Placid DC output and no change.

I also did the ultimate test and power off the MUX, so there is no I2S signal, and the noise is still there.

What about the RC filter on the Placid PCB? Why is the fact of installing the R7 resistor (in fact completing the RC filter is reducing the noise I hear? Do I need to install this R7/C4 on the Placid? If yes, what value of R7 should I use?

Thanks...

SB
avr300  
#5 Posted : Monday, October 6, 2014 5:12:20 PM(UTC)
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My best guess is the I2C lines from the Vol. to the dac.

Try physical separating this line from anything else.

(here illustrated with both red and yellow :-)
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avr300  
#6 Posted : Monday, October 6, 2014 5:14:22 PM(UTC)
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I2C lines are noisy. I'm running them as shielded twisted pairs "air wires".
Brian Donegan  
#7 Posted : Monday, October 6, 2014 6:26:04 PM(UTC)
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You should be able to test this as well by simply de-powering the Volumite. You will have full-volume output though.
algar_emi  
#8 Posted : Monday, October 6, 2014 7:17:53 PM(UTC)
algar_emi

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I tried to remove the volumite and its cable, re-installed the Buffalo default uP chip, and no change, still this noise.

But I found something very interesting. I disconnected the supply from the the Counterpoint I/V channel that has the most noise, and No more noise on the other channel! I tried to supply this Counterpoint with an outside supply and the noise return! So I think it rules out the I2S, or Volumite cable or this Placid supply channel.

It seems to be caused by the Counterpoint! Brian any thought on what can cause this problem, Hi freq oscillation maybe? I'm starting to compare DC voltage from both Counterpoint.

I think I'm getting closer to the solution. Once I solve this naging noise I'll install I2S coax and I'll re-route the Volumite cable.

Waiting for any recommendation concerning the Counterpoint.

Thanks again.
SB
algar_emi  
#9 Posted : Monday, October 6, 2014 7:22:53 PM(UTC)
algar_emi

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By the way, when there is no noise on the defective channel, I measure 0.2mV ac of noise on the output (16mv of noise when the problem is there). Also using a Test CD with 1Khz, 0dB FS signal, With the Volumite at full volume, I measure THD = 0.07%, including at the output of the headphone amplifier.

Very good! I can't wait to fix this defective Counterpoint.

SB
algar_emi  
#10 Posted : Monday, October 6, 2014 8:31:02 PM(UTC)
algar_emi

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No wonder I was hearing noise, this Counterpoint is a nice white noise generator! Check the scope image taken at QP4 base/R10 junction, more than 60mV of noise measured with my DVM. I redid and check all the soldering joints, no change.
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algar_emi  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, October 7, 2014 1:07:24 AM(UTC)
algar_emi

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I found this post of 5 years ago, the Counterpoint (CP) is not the latest thing I'm afraid: http://www.twistedpearau...RG1-RG2-to-GND-pad.aspx,
an other user had exactly the same problem as I do. It was great because Russ White designer of the CP worked with him to find his problem. In his case changing CC4-CC5 from 10pF to 1nF solved the problem. Not for me. Then Russ mentioned to make sure to install the 4.7nF caps at the output, directly at the connector.
On the schematic, and on the PCB silkscreen these caps are there but in the middle of the PCB. This where I installed mine. I installed new 4.7nF caps on the output. BINGO no more noise at all :)

There is no manual for the CP and with only the schematic, it was not clear that CF1-CF2 had to be mounted directly on the output connector, not on the PCB marked location!

Now my Buffalo is playing wonderful music, without any noise, even with the I2S flat ribbon and the MUX connection with wires.

Russ also explained where to connect the RG resistors, again it was not clear on the schematic. I join the image showing these two final touch.

If anyone had noise problem with the CP, that is the solution ;)
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algar_emi  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, October 7, 2014 2:02:09 AM(UTC)
algar_emi

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Wow the music that makes the Buffalo/CP is just gorgeous ;) I'm glad I kept searching the solution.
algar_emi  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, October 7, 2014 1:19:52 PM(UTC)
algar_emi

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I made a quick Counterpoint User manual that includes all I learn about the Counterpoint., It may be usefull to others, see: http://www.twistedpearau...---SB-version.aspx#21626
Russ White  
#14 Posted : Friday, November 7, 2014 7:49:28 PM(UTC)
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Wow I am so glad you like the counterpoint! This gives me inspiration to make the latest version available to the public. Great work!
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