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GFRENCH  
#1 Posted : Friday, June 29, 2012 5:47:32 PM(UTC)
GFRENCH

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hi guys
my first post here. i'm a little confused as to what to order.
all i want is rca in and rca out for 2 channel stereo but the buffalo 111 looks
very hard to understand.
any thoughts on this
Russ White  
#2 Posted : Friday, June 29, 2012 6:27:03 PM(UTC)
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Building a B III is not as hard as you might think.

I you take a little time to read Leon's excellent integration guide I believe that just about anybody could build this DAC.

Cheers!
Russ
GFRENCH  
#3 Posted : Friday, June 29, 2012 6:46:45 PM(UTC)
GFRENCH

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Originally Posted by: Russ White Go to Quoted Post
Building a B III is not as hard as you might think.

I you take a little time to read Leon's excellent integration guide I believe that just about anybody could build this DAC.

Cheers!
Russ


thank you but i don't get why 4/6/8 channels and no mention of 2channel stereo .
also why the other dac kits?
also the buffalo 111 sat tridents what are they?
LeonvB  
#4 Posted : Friday, June 29, 2012 9:06:30 PM(UTC)
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To answer your questions:
I would suggest reading the manual first and then decide what to order. The manual contains an extensive description of the parts you need. It's certain that even without prior experience one could build a setup (or even a dual mono setup) provided you follow the manual.

The manual only contains 3-4 pages about multi-channel setups, the rest is about the general or stereo setup. Plus I think you might be misreading S/PDIF input channels for output channels.

The other DAC kits are mostly older designs, and in most cases cheaper. The BIII is the most flexible design, but that flexibility also makes it a little more complex. On the other hand, it's likely the most popular design right now and pretty well documented (if I may say so).

The Tridents are described in the manual. Happy reading!
Paperweight  
#5 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:15:04 AM(UTC)
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I read the manual but it's a lot of info to absorb. I need a DAC that can be used with balanced and unbalanced headphone amps. Which one out of the BIII, BIIISE and Opus would fit the bill? What about sound quality differences among them? I see the BIII/SE is obviously the most upgradeable. All I want is something to listen to sound files on my PC either through S/PDIF (coming out of an Asus Xonar STX card) or USB. Any help in making a buying decision would be much appreciated. Thanks.
SCompRacer  
#6 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:35:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Paperweight Go to Quoted Post
I read the manual but it's a lot of info to absorb.


Yes it is. I had to keep going back to it and I still refer to it. A year ago I didn't know anything; now I know enough to be dangerous....lol

If you are going to be using SPDIF, I'd suggest one of the BIII's. The ESS Sabre chip handles SPDIF in a way that makes it sound better than SPDIF on other DAC's I had. More reading if you want to learn more about it. My BIII has digital the closest to analog sounding as I have ever experienced.

http://www.esstech.com/PDF/sabrewp.pdf

You could also visit the Twisted Pear forum at diyaudio and read up on the Legato and IVY III output boards. Both have SE and balanced out. The Legato also has 250mA headphone out that will power dynamic phones.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/twisted-pear/
LeonvB  
#7 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:18:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Paperweight Go to Quoted Post
I read the manual but it's a lot of info to absorb. I need a DAC that can be used with balanced and unbalanced headphone amps. Which one out of the BIII, BIIISE and Opus would fit the bill? What about sound quality differences among them? I see the BIII/SE is obviously the most upgradeable. All I want is something to listen to sound files on my PC either through S/PDIF (coming out of an Asus Xonar STX card) or USB. Any help in making a buying decision would be much appreciated. Thanks.

It's a lot of information because it's meant to be the place to look for information, instead of having to wade through hunderds of threads on the support forum.

With the IVY3 and Legato I/V stages you have both balanced and single ended output, provided you limit yourself to a stereo setup. For dual mono you need to add balanced to SE converters (fi. Ventus EZ). Opus, BIII and BIIISE all fit the bill, but I think the BIIISE would be your best choice. It's a fairly recent and if I might say well documented module, with quite some people working on it so questions you might have are likely to be answered.
Paperweight  
#8 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:31:24 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for your reply. Yes and it's just as info heavy since you have to wade through 20 different module manuals and it becomes confusing and overwhelming to the uninitiated so please bear with me. Digital and it's quirks is fairly new to me. I've thus far only built vacuum tube and solid state amplifiers for the last 10 years.

Stereo is fine with me. I don't care much for surround sound and most of my sources are stereo. I too was thinking the BIIISE in dual mono would be the one to choose but I wanted a second opinion.

I'm guessing I can get a single BIIISE board for now along with the power supply and an output stage to switch between balanced and single ended. At a later date, I can add a second BIIISE board and output stage for dual mono as funds allow. Anything I'm missing?


SCompRacer  
#9 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:58:50 PM(UTC)
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I started with a single BIII two channel stereo build and went dual mono. IMO you don't get double the SQ by doubling the cost, but the improvements I did get was well worth it to me. I have ESL speakers which are very revealing of changes.

I had tried both the IVY III and Legato (both sound very good) and preferred the Legato. I also tried it with Twisted Pear linear and the shunting power supplies. IMO you get the best SQ from the hot running shunting power supplies. If you go that route, in the BOM at rear of manual, you will find part numbers for the larger heat sinks for the Placid HD power supply. While TP says 80C is a max temp for the sinks, I prefer 60-70C max. You also need a well ventilated enclosure with the shunting power supplies. If the chassis is of substantial thickness, you can use it as a heat sink. If you go with the linear power supplies they run much cooler.

There is plenty of help available if you want to sound out your build and have questions about it. For a single build you'll need a PS for the DAC (5v) and one for the I/V board (12-15v). The I/V board needs a bipolar PS for the - voltage. You'll need a 15va (9v) and 30va (15v) transformers.

The integration guide will explain input options. The boards are supplied with screw terminal blocks. If you wish to use headers/connectors instead, some suggestions are also listed in the BOM at rear of manual.

I like and used Neutrik connectors for inputs/outputs.

Edited by user Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:15:02 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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LeonvB  
#10 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 10:13:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Paperweight Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for your reply. Yes and it's just as info heavy since you have to wade through 20 different module manuals and it becomes confusing and overwhelming to the uninitiated so please bear with me. Digital and it's quirks is fairly new to me. I've thus far only built vacuum tube and solid state amplifiers for the last 10 years.

Stereo is fine with me. I don't care much for surround sound and most of my sources are stereo. I too was thinking the BIIISE in dual mono would be the one to choose but I wanted a second opinion.

I'm guessing I can get a single BIIISE board for now along with the power supply and an output stage to switch between balanced and single ended. At a later date, I can add a second BIIISE board and output stage for dual mono as funds allow. Anything I'm missing?

Not that much, but you don't need to switch between balanced and SE. You can hook both of those up on the I/V stage. In this case, I would suggest using the Legato as it has excellent buffers on the SE outputs. So you can hook up most SE headphones directly. When you add the second BIIISE, the SE outputs are used for Balanced output so you can drive balanced headphones directly. Do bear in mind it's a class A circuit, so heat can be a problem.
Paperweight  
#11 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 11:00:54 PM(UTC)
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Ok, thanks. I think I'm still a bit confused on the single and dual BIIISE boards. A single BIIISE board can be used with say a single IVYIII board and can give both single ended and balanced signals to drive outboard headphone amps, correct?

I have to start small for now and add to it at a later date. Dual mono would run over $1200 which is nothing to sneeze at.
SCompRacer  
#12 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 11:33:23 PM(UTC)
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UserPostedImage


Originally Posted by: Paperweight Go to Quoted Post
Ok, thanks. I think I'm still a bit confused on the single and dual BIIISE boards. A single BIIISE board can be used with say a single IVYIII board and can give both single ended and balanced signals to drive outboard headphone amps, correct?



Correct. A single BIII or BIII SE will stack on top of an IVY III or Legato via male/female pins/socket. You get balanced and SE out out of either. Short standoffs and screws (included) secure the boards. But please check page 7 of the Integration guide (if you haven't already). It covers differences with specs between the IVY III and Legato and see which one better fits your needs.

More reading, ;) a short manual on the Legato. The IVY III has higher output than the Legato; you can increase the standard build Legato output (of 1.5v) by substituting specific resistors.

http://www.twistedpearau...to_user_manual_3.1.0.pdf

One thing, while you can null DC on the hot and cold of the balanced out of the Legato, you will have some common mode DC between the balanced out ground and hot, and ground and cold. If you can't have common mode DC, you need to use coupling caps, leave ground disconnected (if possible for your application). The IVY III does not have common mode DC. A post at diyaudio about it.

http://www.diyaudio.com/...-do-you-choose-deal.html


A dual mono BIII or dual mono BIII SE can connect to one or two IVY III or Legato I/V stages. Using two Legatos you won't have any common mode DC on the balanced out.

I hear you on the cost. I had built a Lencio idler drive turntable and sold my pricey belt drive. I like the irony that a turntable funded my dual mono upgrade. ;)

Some of my single BIII build pics at photobucket.

http://s417.photobucket....er/Buffalo%20III%20DAC/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ20

Edited by user Sunday, January 27, 2013 11:52:41 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Paperweight  
#13 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 11:51:10 PM(UTC)
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I think I'll stick with the IVYIII for the sake of simplicity and closer matched output levels in balanced and single ended. I did see that earlier. I'll come back to look at the Legato when I can cough up another several hundred dollars maybe when I get next year's tax returns. I still have to buy the parts to build a fourth AMB Labs Beta 22 board to complete a balanced headphone amp and buy a new cable for HD-600/650 headphones.

I still use my Rega P5 turntable into a Graham Slee Reflex M phono stage from time to time. It's rare I have the energy to get up and flip records after work. Sucks getting old.
SCompRacer  
#14 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 11:59:35 PM(UTC)
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I hear you....on the old, work, etc. I grew up with vinyl and have way more records than CD's. Although my vinyl does sound better, I don't use it as much now. I was so excited when I ripped all my CD's to hard drive but soon tired of the Squeezebox Touch sound quality. I tried different DAC's, modded some, then built a BIII. Now I have the best of both worlds (that I can afford anyway...).

Nice table and phono stage you have. I just recapped a 23 year old Class A Krell KSL after repairing the internal KSL MC phono board. It replaced a ModWright SWLP 9.0SE. After trying the DAC balanced out to my amps, I didn't want to lose the SQ improvement and wanted a balanced pre amp.

My Lenco air bearing arm idler drive...shameless plug...

UserPostedImage

Edited by user Monday, January 28, 2013 12:13:12 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Paperweight  
#15 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 12:45:50 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for all your help. One last dumb question. Should the transformers be housed in a separate enclosure or can everything fit in one chassis without adding hum?
SCompRacer  
#16 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 1:36:27 AM(UTC)
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I've seen some builds with trannies in separate enclosures. I never had any hiss/hum out of either of my builds with the transformers in same enclosure. And I am fussy about a low noise floor.

This thing is dead quiet and has six toroidals in it.

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Paperweight  
#17 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 2:05:08 AM(UTC)
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Very nice. Who makes that chassis and what size is it? Looks like this is going to be bigger than I thought.
SCompRacer  
#18 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 2:33:12 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for the kind words.

The case is from Italy, HiFi-2000. It is a PESANTE 3U with 10mm front panel. It is 450mm (17.7") x 430mm (16.9") x 120mm (4.72"). Add ons were both sides of front panel machined, anodize after machine, drilled inner base, 29mm shiny knob, fully vented top cover and four of their anti vibration feet. You can see more details in my build thread here.

http://www.modushop.biz/ecommerce/index_l2.php

They offer enclosures in various sizes. I could have got by with a smaller enclosure but it was going to take up enough space on the rack that I appreciated the extra room. I went with them due to cooling options and they machined on both sides (I wanted the LCD close to the face of front panel) and anodized after machining. The drilled base is nice for air flow and at least two holes in it lined up for near all the boards for mounting; then I only had to drill two additional holes per board. The fully vented top cover also fits on the bottom. I also wanted some space for USB to I2S modules and other possible add ons, like USB isolator/reclocking boards.

Downside is shipping (IIRC ran me $50), and UPS sends you an import duty invoice (like $20) that if not paid within two weeks starts earning interest like your savings account did many years ago.

A forum friend and member here went with a BUD enclosure for his tube output BII DAC.

http://www.budind.com/vi...losure/Rackmount+Chassis

Edited by user Monday, January 28, 2013 2:47:02 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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