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Andrzej  
#1 Posted : Friday, October 19, 2012 11:35:57 AM(UTC)
Andrzej

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Hellow.
Could somebody help me with my Bufflo II locking issue?

My Bufflo II has I2S signal from Exadevices USB/I2S converter. Everithing is OK to 96kHz sampling.
Above that (176, 192 kHz) there is locking poroblem. Evan after 30 minut warming, the issue is smaller but every few second it is

I heard about changing the PLL seting but I do not know how to do it.

regards


gwikse  
#2 Posted : Friday, October 19, 2012 12:03:51 PM(UTC)
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From the integration guide:

"In case of I2S connection problems
Some I2S sources, in particular high resolution ones, do not play correctly with the Buffalo II DAC bo
As a result, lock problems may occur. This can be a result of the source itself or the wiring from the
source to the DAC board. Make sure the I2S wires are of equal length, and as short as they can be
(preferably below 4”/10 cm).
If one is experiencing I2S connection issues that can not be solved by improving the wiring, some DP
register settings should be changed in the DAC. An alternative firmware is available for users of eithe
plain Buffalo II DAC board or for the Volumite to alter these settings. Or one could use either the AC2
an Arduino to set these registers in the DAC.
Note: It is not recommended to use the alternative firmware if you do not experience any problems."

Look at the bottom here for the firmware chip you need: http://www.twistedpearau...om/control/volumite.aspx

An alternative is to use a controller and remove the TPA firmware chip. Look here: http://hifiduino.wordpre...-and-guide-to-hifiduino/

And there are several ongoing projects with external controllers as well as the AC2 if Russ/Brian have had the time to work on it.
thanks 1 user thanked gwikse for this useful post.
Andrzej on 10/19/2012(UTC)
avian  
#3 Posted : Saturday, October 20, 2012 2:42:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andrzej Go to Quoted Post
Hellow.
Could somebody help me with my Bufflo II locking issue?

My Bufflo II has I2S signal from Exadevices USB/I2S converter. Everithing is OK to 96kHz sampling.
Above that (176, 192 kHz) there is locking poroblem. Evan after 30 minut warming, the issue is smaller but every few second it is

I heard about changing the PLL seting but I do not know how to do it.

regards




I'd be looking at your cabling before changing the firmware to the highspeed version. I've used a BII with an exa, and could easily get 192khz stable with no warm up - and thats on the original firmware. How short is your cabling between the exa and B2? and are all connections the same length?
Andrzej  
#4 Posted : Saturday, October 20, 2012 11:32:29 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: avian Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Andrzej Go to Quoted Post
Hellow.
Could somebody help me with my Bufflo II locking issue?

My Bufflo II has I2S signal from Exadevices USB/I2S converter. Everithing is OK to 96kHz sampling.
Above that (176, 192 kHz) there is locking poroblem. Evan after 30 minut warming, the issue is smaller but every few second it is

I heard about changing the PLL seting but I do not know how to do it.

regards




I'd be looking at your cabling before changing the firmware to the highspeed version. I've used a BII with an exa, and could easily get 192khz stable with no warm up - and thats on the original firmware. How short is your cabling between the exa and B2? and are all connections the same length?


Hi thanks for the post.
My cables are about max. 70mm lenght . Max length difference between them is about 15mm.
Some questions.
1.Do you have stable locking on original firmware by higher sampling rate as 384kHz?
2. Is there a big difference in sound quality between highspeed and original firmware?
regards

Abdrzej


gwikse  
#5 Posted : Saturday, October 20, 2012 12:38:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andrzej Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: avian Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Andrzej Go to Quoted Post
Hellow.
Could somebody help me with my Bufflo II locking issue?

My Bufflo II has I2S signal from Exadevices USB/I2S converter. Everithing is OK to 96kHz sampling.
Above that (176, 192 kHz) there is locking poroblem. Evan after 30 minut warming, the issue is smaller but every few second it is

I heard about changing the PLL seting but I do not know how to do it.

regards




I'd be looking at your cabling before changing the firmware to the highspeed version. I've used a BII with an exa, and could easily get 192khz stable with no warm up - and thats on the original firmware. How short is your cabling between the exa and B2? and are all connections the same length?


Hi thanks for the post.
My cables are about max. 70mm lenght . Max length difference between them is about 15mm.
Some questions.
1.Do you have stable locking on original firmware by higher sampling rate as 384kHz?
2. Is there a big difference in sound quality between highspeed and original firmware?
regards

Abdrzej




The difference in lenght should be adressed. It is better to have longer than you need on one or two than to have direct point to point with these cables. So if one cable has to be 70mm the others should be as well (as stated in the integration guide).

You should start with that and see if it solves your problems. If you still have problems with lock after that you should try the alternative firmware or external controller.

glt  
#6 Posted : Saturday, October 20, 2012 3:14:42 PM(UTC)
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The chip locks to the bit clock only. Try twisting the bit clock wire with the ground wire. This will provide some shielding to the bit clock signal
Andrzej  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, October 24, 2012 10:39:07 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for all your help and sugestion.
I shorted the cable to 50 mm and made them all ideally this same lenght.
I twisted the DCK with Gnd cable and no result.
Unfortunately it was not possile to have stable lock on frequencies higher than 96kHz.
So probably I have to change the firmware.
Do you have any experience with high bandwith firmware and its influance on sound quality?
Or may be to try any other solution?

regards fro all members.



avian  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, October 24, 2012 6:59:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andrzej Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for all your help and sugestion.
I shorted the cable to 50 mm and made them all ideally this same lenght.
I twisted the DCK with Gnd cable and no result.
Unfortunately it was not possile to have stable lock on frequencies higher than 96kHz.
So probably I have to change the firmware.
Do you have any experience with high bandwith firmware and its influance on sound quality?
Or may be to try any other solution?

regards fro all members.



With my B-II, I had no problems with frequencies up to 192khz, but anything higher didnt work well. I did order a high bandwidth firmware to try and get into the 300's, but it didnt help things much either. I can say that using the high bandwidth firmware on the lower speeds (i.e. 192 and below) didnt sound as good as the normal firmware.

I'm now using a B-III in the same setup, which lets you change DPLL settings using dip switches, and I've noticed similar. Still hard to get above 300khz, and the higher the DPLL settings, the worse the sound. For now we've just settled on 192 as the highest usable frequency, and set the dip switches for the lowest DPLL that it works on consistently for best sound.

This is just my experience thus far, your mileage may vary, and the firmware might work for you, never know.

Edited by user Wednesday, October 24, 2012 7:00:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user thanked avian for this useful post.
Andrzej on 10/25/2012(UTC)
Andrzej  
#9 Posted : Saturday, October 27, 2012 9:06:59 AM(UTC)
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I read that some people had the locking issue on higher samp. rates with their bufflo III.
They said that it could be spdif autodetect future of sabre DAC. It is possible to turn off autodetect spdif on Bufflo III with it dip switch
Is it possible to do this same on Bufflo II.
regards

ihear21khz  
#10 Posted : Sunday, October 28, 2012 1:01:24 AM(UTC)
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Try removing the onboard firmware chip on the BII. This sets the chip to default mode. Now see if you can run your high frequency material. Also try and make your I2S connections even shorter or use tightly twisted pairs for each of the connections but in what I call psuedo grounded method. This means that for each of the twisted pair connections, the "-" conductor is grounded only at one end (at the source). Just make sure that you do have one good gnd connection between source and dac.
Andrzej  
#11 Posted : Sunday, October 28, 2012 3:58:32 PM(UTC)
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After removing the onboard chip the locking is stable on all frequences.
So what was the reason of locking issue, the PLL BW or spdif autodetect option?
I did not try to twist the wires as I do not understend how to do it.
regards.

Brian Donegan  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:15:16 PM(UTC)
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DPLL Bandwidth. There is a firmware option that will fix this, available on the Volumite page (don't ask why it's there... :) )
ihear21khz  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, October 31, 2012 2:13:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andrzej Go to Quoted Post
After removing the onboard chip the locking is stable on all frequences.
So what was the reason of locking issue, the PLL BW or spdif autodetect option?
I did not try to twist the wires as I do not understend how to do it.
regards.



As Brian has pointed out, it is a DPLL issue
PM me your email address and I will send you a drawing on the wiring. I cannot (don't know how to) attach files to the forum PM and email facility.

Cheers
David
ihear21khz attached the following image(s):
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Andrzej  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, October 31, 2012 9:42:20 AM(UTC)
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Tank you for all of the usefull posts.
I ordered highbandwith firware from TP.
I try the twisted cable connection too.

thanks


Angel  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, November 6, 2012 9:01:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andrzej Go to Quoted Post
After removing the onboard chip the locking is stable on all frequences.
...


Hello Andrzej,
What is output analog level when firmware chip is removed?
When I remove firmware chip and use I2S input the output analog level is half.

Thanks,
Angel

Andrzej  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, November 7, 2012 11:14:51 AM(UTC)
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Hellow.
Analog aoutput is about 10dB lower without a chip.
But there is also much more jitter, so the quality of sound is rather pure without a chip.
I hope that with the high bandwith chip I ordered, the jitter will be not as big as without a chip.
regards
thanks 1 user thanked Andrzej for this useful post.
Angel on 11/8/2012(UTC)
ihear21khz  
#17 Posted : Friday, November 9, 2012 4:09:12 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Andrzej Go to Quoted Post
Hellow.
Analog aoutput is about 10dB lower without a chip.
But there is also much more jitter, so the quality of sound is rather pure without a chip.
I hope that with the high bandwith chip I ordered, the jitter will be not as big as without a chip.
regards


Oddly, my dac output is higher without the firmware chip. I have started a thread and posted questions regarding this issue.

Cheers
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