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suffolk tony  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, December 28, 2011 8:37:48 AM(UTC)
suffolk tony

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A bit of a strange problem - my Dual-Mono Buff's been working fine for many months but this morning, following a powering-down then power up, the RH channel no longer works. The mute light's on for that channel, and checking the voltages to Buffalo, connections etc. all seems well. BUT the BP HD Placid supplying the Legato on that channel showed only 2V+, 4.5V - . I disconnected the load (both BP HD Placids supply the relevant Legatos and Ballsie -Lites for unbalanced output) & readjusted the shunt and voltage (14.5V in this case). However, on connecting up & under load the voltages drop way down. The shunt voltage, however, remains at 0.06.

I'm really puzzled by this. Surely the power to the Legato wouldn't influence the lock to the DAC, and what would cause the voltage of the BP HD Placid to drop so much under load?

All help and advice gratefully received. I'm very much a newby to DIY electronics so please be gentle...

Edited by user Wednesday, December 28, 2011 8:38:48 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

LeonvB  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, December 28, 2011 10:45:46 AM(UTC)
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As you have a dual mono setup, testing this is quite easy. Since you have 2 of everything, switch the Placid BPs. If the problem migrates with the Placid, the problem is in the Placid. If it stays in the right channel it is the Legato/Ballsie.
suffolk tony  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, December 28, 2011 3:12:42 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for your help Leon, I shall try that tomorrow. I still can't understand why a possible fault with the Legato should affect the lock on the Buffalo II though?
Russ White  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, December 28, 2011 6:15:04 PM(UTC)
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You could check the BUF 2 lock in isolation.
suffolk tony  
#5 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2011 7:38:27 AM(UTC)
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OK, today I've had another try at isolating this problem, but it's still confusing! I tried swapping BP HD Placids round & this resulted in the voltages of the original LH Placid dropping, but only on the +V side. Disconnecting the Ballsie Lite made no difference. I then swapped the Buffalos round & reconnected up to the Sp/DIF input but the non-locking problem migrated with the Buffalo, so now the LH one doesn't lock. Previously, although the RH channel wasn't working, the LH channel sounded fine but with them swapped all I get is a very distorted peep from the RH channel.

When powering down, I notice the Placid BP on the RH side takes a while before the LEDs fade, whereas the LH's fade instantly. Without load, the RH Placid BP reads fine & everything adjusts OK, it's just under load when it drops, but the readings are inconsistent - today, without adjusting anything, it now reads (under load) 9.77V+, 2.87V-, with the shunt current high on the -tive side, low on the +tive side.

It does seem to me that both the Legato and the Buffalo II on the RH channel have developed faults simultaneously. Is this a likely scenario?

Next thing I guess is to pull it all apart & reset up as a single Buffalo DAC so I can more easily swap units around. There are no obvious signs that anything is amiss, and all LEDs work.
avr300  
#6 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2011 10:47:17 AM(UTC)
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Also what I would do. Revert to stereo single DAC setup and work from there.

Keep post the findings.
suffolk tony  
#7 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2011 12:15:10 PM(UTC)
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Unfortunately I'll not have the chance to do anything else for a week or so but I'll keep you posted!
suffolk tony  
#8 Posted : Sunday, January 8, 2012 5:56:35 AM(UTC)
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I've now got round to working out what's gone wrong. By a process of elimination it's come down to one VCC_XO Trident, plus the adjustment on one of the BP HD Placids has drifted considerably. I'm now up and running with one Buffalo & Single-ended operation to tide me over until I work out what to do.

I'm rather miffed that the Trident's failed - the voltage was set at 5.2V so that wouldn't have caused it to pack up. Both LEDs are illuminated but the voltage output's only 0.7V. The drift on the Placid HD appears to be due to the Vishay adjustable pots. I've had problems previously with these, and needed to replace a couple at one stage (no, I hadn't been over-adjusting them...) They're incredibly sensitive, just the slightest turn sends the readings all over the place. I'll be replacing them with fixed-value resistors for definite.
avr300  
#9 Posted : Sunday, January 8, 2012 7:50:56 AM(UTC)
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Saw your posting earlier on today.

I agree with you, those pots are unreliable. I just had an incidence, been away for a couple of hours. When I returned and fired up the DAC - only very faint sound coming to my ears.

Measured the shunted current on the Placid BP. = 0mA on the positive rail and only 3v output. Readjusted to 80mA, and the voltage returned to 12.5v - and it's running again.

Remind you - the DAC was running perfectly a couple of hours ago.

Fixed resistors! At least for current set. That must be the solution.
Erlend Sæterdal  
#10 Posted : Sunday, January 8, 2012 9:05:45 AM(UTC)
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I have never problems with such pots in all my life ! Eh?
avr300  
#11 Posted : Sunday, January 8, 2012 9:12:56 AM(UTC)
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Lucky you.
Brian Donegan  
#12 Posted : Sunday, January 8, 2012 10:16:15 AM(UTC)
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Typically the trimmers are damaged from overheating during soldering, or over-turning during adjustment. Not saying that is the cause in your case. Be particularly careful when soldering the trimmer pins connected to the ground plane, as those joints take a while to heat up and is the most likely place to cause damage. Using a slightly hotter iron in those spots helps overcome the heatsinking effect of the ground plane.

Fixed resistors are always a better solution in the end, but it is impossible to predict what those values will be, as there are many variables in a DIY setting.

As for the Trident, if it is putting out 0.7V, check the solder connections, especially for R4 (current setting resistor). I do hand test every single on of them before they go out.
Russ White  
#13 Posted : Sunday, January 8, 2012 10:19:40 AM(UTC)
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suffolk tony wrote:
Both LEDs are illuminated but the voltage output's only 0.7V.


In the past this usually indicates a problem with R4 soldering. Double check it.

I would always suggest using fixed resistors on Placid HD once you know your desired operating point.
avr300  
#14 Posted : Sunday, January 8, 2012 12:37:41 PM(UTC)
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I now see what my problem in this case is. It might not be the trimmer. A thermal coefficient, positive or negative. Either the Legato draws less current when hot than cold - or the Placid BP ramps itself up when getting hot.

Explanation:

- If I trim the Placid to shunt 80mA when system is cold, it will raise way beyond 150mA when the system has run for while, developing a lot of unnecessary heat.

- If I trim the Placid to shunt 80mA when hot (not HOT, but normal operation temperature), then it's not always sufficient to turn on the rig, when it's cold. It'll start by putting out 3v and the shunted current will stay at -20mA (Yes minus 20mA). After about 1 minute it suddenly rises to 80mA / 12.5v and the relay on the Legato clicks.

Above refers to the positive rail only.

Does this make any sense ?

I'll like to run the Placid shunting about 80mA due to the less heat generated.
Russ White  
#15 Posted : Sunday, January 8, 2012 7:28:13 PM(UTC)
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I would suggest just running it at about 100ma when hot. There will be some thermal coefficient because LEDs as a voltage ref will always have some.
suffolk tony  
#16 Posted : Monday, January 9, 2012 5:43:52 AM(UTC)
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Brian Donegan wrote:

As for the Trident, if it is putting out 0.7V, check the solder connections, especially for R4 (current setting resistor). I do hand test every single on of them before they go out.


OK, I've just gone over the Trident carefully with the soldering iron & checked it under a strong magnifier - still no joy. I desoldered & checked R4 to be on the safe side. What else could have failed? I've a steady hand so I'm prepared to have a go replacing the SMD components.
suffolk tony  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, January 10, 2012 4:56:23 AM(UTC)
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Looking through the posts on the Trident thread, I notice that likely culprits are the op-amp & the two transistors. The former is a Nat. Semiconductor LMP7731MA and the latter, Fairchild 860CWs? Is this correct please?

Edited by user Tuesday, January 10, 2012 4:57:58 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Brian Donegan  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:12:03 AM(UTC)
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That is correct.
suffolk tony  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2012 8:43:41 AM(UTC)
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I finally got round to attempting a repair on the Trident but no joy. I renewed both transistors and the op-amp. Twice (just in case), The Trident only outputs 0.8 volts. Any other suggestions please?
miero  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:40:14 PM(UTC)
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Following thread could help ... http://twistedpearaudio.....aspx?g=posts&t=1907

Try to measure voltages on some components on Trident too.
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