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deafbykhorns  
#1 Posted : Friday, December 30, 2011 3:33:49 PM(UTC)
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Mute light stays on with SPDIF input.
Input to D1 so have set SW2 1 to on, also tried other settings.
Are the standard SPDIF outputs TTL level? Brian indicated I wouldn't need anything else

I'm doing straight SPDIF to B3 to Legato

What are the proper settings for SW1 and SW2?
Russ White  
#2 Posted : Friday, December 30, 2011 7:28:34 PM(UTC)
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Consumer SPDIF is not TTL level. It sounds like you will need either the SPDIF4 module or the single SPDIF module.
deafbykhorns  
#3 Posted : Friday, December 30, 2011 9:48:30 PM(UTC)
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I had a lock light with my I2s but mute was on too. No sound
So I tried swapping around I2s connections to no avail.
Went back to old connection and now no lock light.
Did I smoke the DAC by mixing WCLK, BCLK and DATA?
Russ White  
#4 Posted : Friday, December 30, 2011 10:29:50 PM(UTC)
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I2S from what source?
deafbykhorns  
#5 Posted : Saturday, December 31, 2011 5:53:05 AM(UTC)
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Wow, it was late and I unplugged the cable by accident. Lock light is on again.
I2s from mini-din at rear of audio alchemy DDS Pro. It should be 64fs since the Sony CXD2500 chip is 48/64, I think it runs thru a 74AC175SC just before the mini din connector.
But when I short the reset on B3 both the Mute and Lock light up at same time. Initial power up, just the lock light.
JPCM 1-3 are jumpered
J1-12 are jumpered
Tried DIP D1,D2 in both posistions

I checked output headers for signal on scope, got nothing.

Will the B3 take AES directly into SPDIF or is this consumer SPDIF again?

I had a feeling I needed the SPDIF board but was told it wasnt needed.
And they have been on back order since I ordered the B3. So what can I do now to get my dac going?

Edited by user Saturday, December 31, 2011 6:55:52 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Russ White  
#6 Posted : Saturday, December 31, 2011 7:37:06 AM(UTC)
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All of the B3 digital inputs are TTL level. You need a SPDIF input board if you want to use consumer or AES SPDIF.

Very likely your I2S is 48fs bit clock.
LeonvB  
#7 Posted : Saturday, December 31, 2011 7:49:39 AM(UTC)
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I do not understand what you want to do by "Input to D1 so have set SW2 1 to on, also tried other settings". If you feed it I2S this does not apply.
The settings for the DIP switches on the boards are mentioned in the guide. The chapter is called "DIP switch settings".
Using RESET is not needed under normal use.
Any normal SPDIF including AES needs a comparator. For I2S you do not need one, but you would need to feed the DAC a correct signal.
I suggest you read the guide first before trying to connect things and then randomly set switches to see if you can get things to work. Possible solutions are the Metronome for I2S reclocking, Toslink module for TTL level input.
deafbykhorns  
#8 Posted : Saturday, December 31, 2011 4:20:08 PM(UTC)
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I read the manual front to back. Not all DIYer's know what TTL level is, I was told that the B3 takes SPDIF. After sifting thru this forum I found it does not but did work with the BII.
So it seems I've been misguided when I ordered this stuff. I thought I needed the metronome or spdif but someone steered me wrong when I asked.
The various interfaces have been on backorder since I ordered the B3 so it appears this project is on hold unless I can somehow extract TTL from my Audio Alchemy DDS transport.
So I'm either going to dump this project or bite the bullet and order a real I2s transport like at http://www.diy-high-end.com/
I'm open for suggestions......

It would of been nice to specify TTL when it claims to support S/PDIF. This must of been a copy and paste of the BII

Highlights
Four-layer circuit board optimized for mixed signals
Based on the ESS Sabre32 Reference (ES9018) DAC chip
Configurable for 1 to 8 DACs per channel
High-precision, ultra-low-phase noise clock and integrated reclocking
Three seperate series shunt regulator modules (Tridents) for Digital supplies
Dual series shunt voltage regulator module for AVCC supplies
Direct DSD, I2S and S/PDIF inputs supporting up to 32-bit/192kHz
Supports up to 8 seperate stereo S/PDIF inputs, or up to 8 channels of PCM or DSDShhh, it only supports TTL
Up to 8 channels of outputs can be used in current-output or voltage-output mode (depends on output stage used)
All connections by direct or optional (included) terminal blocks
Built in digital volume control using the including volume pot
Onboard microcontroller and 16 configuration switches, plus a header for remote control options
I2C header for optional remote uC interfacing
Seperate onboard regulator for powering the microcontroller and accessories

Edited by user Saturday, December 31, 2011 4:27:32 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Russ White  
#9 Posted : Saturday, December 31, 2011 4:44:50 PM(UTC)
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It is important to distinguish signal levels and interfacing standards from digital formats.

In simple terms SPDIF in the context of supported formats is a digital format just as PCM(I2S) and DSD are. TTL is widely used standard for levels in IC logic signals - you can read more about it here: Transistor-Transistor Logic. Any digital signal coming into the DAC must be TTL level (I2S/DSD included). Most I2S and DSD sources will already be at TTL level, but it is actually possible for them to be transmitted at other levels and even using LVDS or other differential techniques. So for example if you had a I2S source that output via LVDS you would need to convert the LVDS signals to TTL signals. In fact that is precisely one thing we can do with the new "teleporter" module. :)

In the context of SPDIF TTL and consumer are signal levels. Changing the level or transmission method of format does not change the format itself. SPDIF is always SPDIF regardless of its level and transmission technique - optical(toslink), consumer, AES, or TTL - it's still SPDIF.

SPDIF signals are generally transmitted at consumer level which is as low as .5VPP. Far too small for the DAC to detect. But SPDIF need not be consumer level - for example TOSLINK receivers and many other IC or processor SPDIF sources output TTL. Generally you use a comparator or similar device to convert the "level" (not the format) of the SPDIF from consumer/AES to TTL. It is still SPDIF as it was before just now level shifted so that the DAC can receive it. Some ICs like SPDIF receivers have a built in level shifter such as a Schmidt trigger so that they can be fed a broad range of signal levels. The ES9018 does not have such level shifters built in, it must always be fed TTL compatible signal levels.

So it is absolutely correct to state that the B3 supports SPDIF input directly - it just must be a TTL level SDPIF encoded signal like any other signal into the DAC. B2 handled level shifting for a single SPDIF input via a switch and an on-board comparator, but that solution was not as flexible as many people wanted and so is changed to an external single or quad comparator solution for the B3 which are inexpensive modules and easy to add. This approach makes it much easier to implement solutions where people want both SPDIF and PCM/DSD sources - this is often done via the module we call "sidecar"

Sorry if you misunderstood.

Cheers!
Russ

Edited by user Saturday, December 31, 2011 5:47:00 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

deafbykhorns  
#10 Posted : Saturday, December 31, 2011 7:12:53 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the explanation, really good info, you should put that in your manual.
Sounds like I need a Metronome which may be a challenge since I don't know the exact output of my transport.
Question is when will all this become available or would i be better off with another transport?
My goal was to get away from "consumer level" SPDIF and strictly use I2s. I should have stayed away from the older format I2s and just built up a new Philips Pro from the start. This may be my only option since the metronome could be another 6 weeks (if I'm quick enough to order when available)

Edited by user Saturday, December 31, 2011 7:52:16 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

LeonvB  
#11 Posted : Sunday, January 1, 2012 1:48:35 AM(UTC)
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I'm sorry you misunderstood, but it's not like there's no warning at all in the manual, these are just some of the signs:
"In contrast to the Buffalo II board, the Buffalo III no longer has an on-board comparator. So the Buffalo III only supports TTL level S/PDIF next to the usual I2S and DSD signals. For consumer level S/PDIF a comparator or other type of conversion is needed."
"Coax is a popular way to feed a S/PDIF signal to the DAC, but again: for the Buffalo III you need to feed it a TTL level S/PDIF signal, or pass it through a comparator like the one used on the S/PDIF-4 Input Board or the Single S/PDIF Level Converter."
"Converts one S/PDIF input from consumer level to TTL level, offers galvanic isolation."
"Converts S/PDIF inputs from consumer level to TTL level, offers galvanic isolation."
Even if you do not know what TTL level S/PDIF is, this should have pointed you to the fact that not all S/PDIF versions are created equal.

I2S for AA is:
DATA
WCLK
BCLK
DEEM
MCLK
Even with this information however, I feel it's propably better to look for another transport, as this unit might be getting old. Building a newer transport to mod and grabbing 2 Teleporter modules to transmit/receive I2S might be a better idea.
Russ White  
#12 Posted : Sunday, January 1, 2012 8:36:02 AM(UTC)
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deafbykhorns wrote:
Question is when will all this become available or would i be better off with another transport?


I would suggest you get one of the SPDIF comparator boards. The site is closed for the holiday so everything is marked out of stock but will be open again very soon.
deafbykhorns  
#13 Posted : Sunday, January 1, 2012 8:50:52 AM(UTC)
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LeonvB wrote:
I'm sorry you misunderstood, but it's not like there's no warning at all in the manual, these are just some of the signs:
"In contrast to the Buffalo II board, the Buffalo III no longer has an on-board comparator. So the Buffalo III only supports TTL level S/PDIF next to the usual I2S and DSD signals. For consumer level S/PDIF a comparator or other type of conversion is needed."
"Coax is a popular way to feed a S/PDIF signal to the DAC, but again: for the Buffalo III you need to feed it a TTL level S/PDIF signal, or pass it through a comparator like the one used on the S/PDIF-4 Input Board or the Single S/PDIF Level Converter."
"Converts one S/PDIF input from consumer level to TTL level, offers galvanic isolation."
"Converts S/PDIF inputs from consumer level to TTL level, offers galvanic isolation."
Even if you do not know what TTL level S/PDIF is, this should have pointed you to the fact that not all S/PDIF versions are


Point taken, but in retrospect did I really need to read the entire manual before purchasing everything? The website should have some sort of flowchart or overview for each device that would help in purchasing the various parts. It was clear as mud for me reading the general descriptions but I'm learning real quick now. Had I known these facts I would of moved in a different direction. It did make some changes over the past few weeks but still unclear to your average Joe unless you read the manual and sift thru the forums.
I'm learning real quick why I2s never really took off for cd connectivity. I figured out the AA's I2s since I have a lock now but learned it's highly unlikely this outputs 64fs.

All of the B3 digital inputs are TTL level. You need a SPDIF input board if you want to use consumer or AES SPDIF.
This would be a great example of what needs to be on the B3 page, listed under features (next to the spdif line).
It also says it supports UP TO 32bit, that's sounds like it supports everything below as well (unless you read the manual)

Will the tele porter have ASRC to convert 24bit or will it be flexible enough to take a lower I2s(48fs) and output 32bit to the B3?


Edited by user Sunday, January 1, 2012 9:33:53 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

LeonvB  
#14 Posted : Sunday, January 1, 2012 11:05:56 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
Point taken, but in retrospect did I really need to read the entire manual before purchasing everything?

Of course not, but it's just like a car: you don't need a drivers license to purchase one, but it does sometimes help to operate it a bit more safely.
Second: the guide is written to show you what you need and how everything fits together. So it's exactly what you are requesting. Unfortunately the B3 is very flexible and hence the guide is getting big.
If it is clear as mud to you: I'd like to know why and what. You shouldn't need to sift through the forums, except for the AA I2S interface: that is well beyond the scope of the document.

I2S was never meant for inter-device connectivity, just for on-board use. So there are no standards for it's connector, pin lay-out, etc. The AA likely directly outputs the I2S signal it receives from it's CD drive, which most likely is 48fs but there is no way to know for sure without a proper specification, which may be hard to get.

The B3 also supports fi. 16 and 24 bit signals as in 16/44, 24/96, etc. You are mixing up the word size and the clock. Most modern DACs need a 64fs clock.

Russ will have to answer that last question. To my knowledge the teleporter isn't an ASRC.
Russ White  
#15 Posted : Sunday, January 1, 2012 6:21:33 PM(UTC)
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No teleporter is only a TTL/LVDS transceiver. It is orthogonal to ASRC.
deafbykhorns  
#16 Posted : Sunday, January 1, 2012 7:18:58 PM(UTC)
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LeonvB wrote:
Quote:

If it is clear as mud to you: I'd like to know why and what. You shouldn't need to sift through the forums, except for the AA I2S interface: that is well beyond the scope of the document.

I was referring to the Spdif part that was bolded a couple posts up, not the I2S. I would have purchased the single spdif "consumer" board.
Or the 4:1 since I have a couple other digital sources with poor dacs

I'm assuming the metronome would be a waste of time unless I know the bit and word length of AA? Unless I'm feeling lucky

Edited by user Sunday, January 1, 2012 7:21:37 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

LeonvB  
#17 Posted : Monday, January 2, 2012 11:33:49 AM(UTC)
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The odd clock is likely the only problem with the I2S input. The DAC has no problems with fi. 16 bit input. And even if it did, you could correct it with the SRC4192. You could read the datasheet of it for more information.
I take it you've found the pin layout for the AA, if you have that it's easy to hook it up to the Metronome.
deafbykhorns  
#18 Posted : Monday, January 2, 2012 2:56:45 PM(UTC)
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The store just opened up so I just ordered the 4:1, metronome and side car
I didn't know TP had two different types of 4:1 modules, one mux and one recently added under the buffalo dac.
The 4:1 mux is still being tweaked according to Russ
I'll give the metronome a try, it was cheap and could come in handy down the road when I try a DIY transport.
Thanks again for you patience
Brian Donegan  
#19 Posted : Monday, January 2, 2012 3:45:44 PM(UTC)
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The one for the Buffalo is simply a 4-channel level converter, not a Mux. It is designed to utilize the MUX built into the ES9018. The switch kit controls that MUX.
deafbykhorns  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, January 3, 2012 8:10:57 AM(UTC)
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Brian

Just ordered the 4:1, sidecar and metronome
Will I have all the ribbon cable parts to do this scenario with the sidecar?
Sidecar Connection Link
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