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David F  
#1 Posted : Sunday, August 28, 2011 5:27:20 AM(UTC)
David F

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Just replaced my old Legato with a Legato 3.1

All was well until a couple of hours in when I noticed a crackling sound in the left channel. It is there regardless of whether the Buff II is powered on or not.

I noticed a previous post about Legato 2 having probs with resistors. Is this an issue with the 3.1 version also?

Regards,

David
avr300  
#2 Posted : Sunday, August 28, 2011 6:41:30 AM(UTC)
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Hmmm, it might be.

I haven't had any problem with 3.1 though.

I would check all connections and solder points first. And check the power supply. Are you feeding +-15v ?

Edited by user Sunday, August 28, 2011 6:42:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

David F  
#3 Posted : Sunday, August 28, 2011 8:36:46 AM(UTC)
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I am feeding around +-12.6V

I am running triple DACs (in front of a digital crossover) all powered by the same analog supply (AMB B22). I have one other Legato 3.1 in place and it works perfectly.

The Legato thats playing up actually sounds fine musically (aside from the crackling). i.e.: Its not distorting.

Go back and resolder everything I guess.
avr300  
#4 Posted : Sunday, August 28, 2011 9:21:32 AM(UTC)
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And keep an eye on those resistors. I changed almost the whole board on the old Legato before hitting the nail - the resistors.
Russ White  
#5 Posted : Sunday, August 28, 2011 8:14:19 PM(UTC)
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That crackling might just have absolutely nothing to do with the I/V stage. :)
David F  
#6 Posted : Sunday, August 28, 2011 11:17:38 PM(UTC)
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Russ White wrote:
That crackling might just have absolutely nothing to do with the I/V stage. :)



Possibly, but all I did is replace a Legato 2 with the new 3.1. The Sympatico amp was working perfectly, and still is - as if I swap leads the problem moves to the other channel.

The DAC is off, and the bipolar analog power supply is working perfectly for the other Legato 2 and 3.1 boards.

That doesn't leave much except for the interconnect cable....
David F  
#7 Posted : Monday, August 29, 2011 12:30:09 AM(UTC)
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Yep - It was my dodgy balanced interconnect.

The Legato is blameless.

Thanks Russ. You are indeed a legend :-)
David F  
#8 Posted : Monday, August 29, 2011 2:48:21 AM(UTC)
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Actually, the interconnect is OK (or is at least not the root cause)

There seems to be instability causing high frequency nasties now that I have 2 Legato 3.

In my mult-amp setup it jumps from amp to amp and channel to channel after startup.

I am guessing this is because the Legato 3 doesn't have output caps and somehow this is causing it.
David F  
#9 Posted : Monday, August 29, 2011 5:13:37 AM(UTC)
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My latest guess is that it is not a good idea to use a common PS across multiple Legatos and/or DACs

Anyone else had such issues?
elviz  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:18:58 AM(UTC)
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I had similar problems, but i have have kind of found a solution to it. Here is my setup:

- Buffalo II with tridents
- Legato 3.1 (SE stage completely omitted)
- 2x Placid BP (~70ma shunted per rail, ~160ma CCS)
- 1x Placid
- Arduino based control through I2C
- Balanced output only

Amp:
- 2x Hypex UcD400 HG HxR
- 2x Hypex SMPS 400@400
- XLR input

What i have experienced is that if I connect the amp everything power them on, and start listening to music, i'll get this hissing+crackling problem on one or both channels after a while. Believe me, i have checked and double checked everything, re-soldered everything, cleaned the Legato with isopropanol, checked if the i2c connection is the cause, checked cabling, and what not.

BUT when both devices turned off and music stopped, if I
1) disconnect the XLR cables on the dac
2) power on the dac and let the arduino do it's thing (takes a few seconds with OSD animations and stuff :d/ ) (in my case by plugging the power cable, i got no on/off button)
3) connect the XLR cables
4) power on the amp (in my case by plugging the power cable, i got no on/off button)

No hiss, no crackling and i've been tuning the Legato like this numerous times already and the trick always works. And i've been running the combination with no problems for couple of days now, with +-15V and +-12V and everything between. Every other "power on" sequence fails. The disconnecting and re-connecting the XLR cables in that exact order is the crucial part.

I don't know for sure, but I suspect this has something to do with common mode voltage on the XLR outputs, or somehow bad grounding between the devices. Possibly just a unlucky combination of output stage and amp. There was no problems like this with IVY III or my Benchmark DAC1. I don't mind, if i have to reconnect the cables once in a while. Unless i am tuning something the Hifi is always turned on anyways.

Edited by user Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:46:19 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Russ White  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:48:14 AM(UTC)
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Both situations sound like they may benefit from coupling caps.
David F  
#12 Posted : Friday, September 2, 2011 4:34:00 PM(UTC)
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Russ White wrote:
Both situations sound like they may benefit from coupling caps.


I added coupling caps (by going back to the Legato 2). The problem persisted.

I added an independant earth shield to my balanced interconnects (i.e. signal ground is lifted from earth, and is not used for shielding). This mitigated the problem to a great extent. The severe crackling is gone and only a faint whistling remains.

The problem therefore seems to be RFI-related.

elviz  
#13 Posted : Monday, October 17, 2011 4:23:12 PM(UTC)
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Weird enough, all my past problems with hiss and crackling have gone away over time. I have been running Legato 3.1 for more over month now, without any problems. I guess some things really "burn in" Applause Think .

Edited by user Monday, October 17, 2011 4:24:49 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Erlend Sæterdal  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, October 18, 2011 4:33:09 AM(UTC)
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So I have to burn my Legato in for a month before I can use it ?

I have added 2,2 ohm Carbon Composite between the Dac and the Legato 3.1. The same between the opamp and the Buffer.
Russ White  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, October 18, 2011 5:13:15 AM(UTC)
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No. You do not.

Why would you add those resistors? Especially at the input of the Legato it is not a good idea.
Russ White  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, October 18, 2011 5:14:45 AM(UTC)
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Problems like this could easily be a burnt transistor for even a cold solder joint etc.

The MOSFETs need to be handled with care regarding ESD.
Erlend Sæterdal  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, October 18, 2011 11:18:29 AM(UTC)
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Russ White wrote:
No. You do not.


Why would you add those resistors? Especially at the input of the Legato it is not a good idea.


Just Kidding about the Burn in. Whistle

I add these resistors only because the coloration of the sound they make is positive for music listening. They are only 2,2 ohm. Do you think they are a problem for the Legato input stage ?

Edited by user Tuesday, October 18, 2011 11:21:53 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Russ White  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, October 18, 2011 11:41:10 AM(UTC)
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Well there is no problem other than you well get somewhat degraded performance in terms of THD and Dynamic range.
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