Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Login


Options
View
Go to last post Go to first unread
arvema  
#1 Posted : Sunday, May 1, 2011 2:01:12 PM(UTC)
arvema

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 10/21/2010(UTC)
Posts: 17
Location: Norway

Thanks: 1 times
During 4 months with my Buffalo II, Ivy II, Volumite and Sympatico I now and then have had problems with noise; a fairly high frequent, pulsating noise that changes intensity as I move my hand over the different components.

Today I disconnected the Buff and Ivy from the Sympaticos, and it turns out that only one channel with Sympatico alone produces this noise. I have carefully looked again at all the soldering, but it really looks fine. The noise changes from quite strong to almost inaudible when I touch different parts of cabinet or components, but the changes in noise don’t seem to be consistent.

Any ideas what to do to solve this?
Brian Donegan  
#2 Posted : Sunday, May 1, 2011 3:43:10 PM(UTC)
Brian Donegan

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,868
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 141 time(s) in 134 post(s)
Sounds like a grounding or wire routing issue. Can you post some pictures?
Russ White  
#3 Posted : Sunday, May 1, 2011 6:29:48 PM(UTC)
Russ White

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,979
Location: Nashville, TN

Thanks: 25 times
Was thanked: 89 time(s) in 83 post(s)
Also try connecting the inputs to GND, is the noise still there?
arvema  
#4 Posted : Sunday, May 1, 2011 11:56:15 PM(UTC)
arvema

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 10/21/2010(UTC)
Posts: 17
Location: Norway

Thanks: 1 times
Thanks for reply. When I connected inputs to GND (i.e. connected all three together) there is still the disturbing noise, maybe weaker. It is very unstable; the first time I connected them, it was almost silent. When I tried connecting two and two, the noise was quite strong, and connecting all three produced a strong noise again. Connecting all three to cabinet ground does not help.

Here are two photos, one of the whole setup with Buff and Ivy disconnected. The other is a close-up of the noise-generating Sympatico.

As you see, I have changed the capacitors to EPCOS B41456, 40V, 22000 mF because I experienced the sound to be better with them.

Later today: I disconnected both Sympaticos and listened to Buff+Ivy through phones. Strangely enough the same pulsating noise is there even with no Sympatico connected. The transformers feeding the Sympaticos were also turned off. I measured the voltage: 5.50V to Buff and 15.06V to Ivy.

Does this suggest the grounding/wiring hypothesis?

Very thankful for any further help!

Edited by user Monday, May 2, 2011 4:12:04 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

arvema attached the following image(s):
Sympatico1.jpg (132kb) downloaded 184 time(s).
Sympatico2.jpg (153kb) downloaded 192 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
avr300  
#5 Posted : Monday, May 2, 2011 12:06:45 PM(UTC)
avr300

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 6/17/2008(UTC)
Posts: 921
Denmark

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 70 time(s) in 69 post(s)
Power down the digital stuff, shot the amp inputs to GND and listen. Does it still make the noise?

edit - sorry, didn't read hard enough.

Yes, do tidy up all those flying wires. Do you use a volumite, it seem so. Make sure that the 4 wires connecting the volumite stays clear of all other wires.

What are those wires doing ?

Edited by user Monday, May 2, 2011 12:12:35 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

avr300 attached the following image(s):
cut.JPG (15kb) downloaded 150 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
Brian Donegan  
#6 Posted : Monday, May 2, 2011 12:13:38 PM(UTC)
Brian Donegan

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,868
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 141 time(s) in 134 post(s)
It it most likely a wiring issue.

I would recommend, if you can, moving the small trafos for the digital section into the main chassis so they can get nice short runs to the PSUs. Running long AC lines all mixed together is a recipe for noise.

If you need to keep them remote, try twisting the secondaries (each pair) together and try to keep them separate.

The various signal lines need to be neatened up and kept apart as much as possible.
avr300  
#7 Posted : Monday, May 2, 2011 12:26:26 PM(UTC)
avr300

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 6/17/2008(UTC)
Posts: 921
Denmark

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 70 time(s) in 69 post(s)
Quick test. Keep it to the headphones.

Disconnect the input to the DAC. Disconnect the + wire to the volumite. (careful, now you have 100% output volume). Try to listen with headphones, is the noise gone ?

I heard something similar once my connection to the volumite was a little to close to the I/V stage.
arvema  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, May 3, 2011 10:08:23 PM(UTC)
arvema

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 10/21/2010(UTC)
Posts: 17
Location: Norway

Thanks: 1 times
Thanks for suggestions. Sorry for the long text, but I need a few word to describe this.

I have now tested the Sympaticos alone and the Buff+Ivy alone, and experiences that both units produce this noise independently. Then I took everything upstairs and moved the small trafos into the main chassis as suggested by Brian. I also simplified the AC wiring as much as possible. The other wiring is more difficult to change because it is silver, - inflexible end expensive, but I did my best also here. Well, the result was anyway very good, no audible noise neither in speakers nor in headphones.

But, alas, when I moved it down to the living room, the noise came back. I then, by chance, noticed exactly the same background noise on the telephone. Well, I turned off all other electricity in my apartment; no wireless, no computers, etc., but without effect; noise persisted. So I must conclude that there probably is some electromagnetic radiation influencing my gear. I have another amplifier nearby which is completely silent, so in some way the Buff+Ivy+Sympatico is more sensitive.

Is there any way to shield it or make it less sensitive to such influences? Or can it still be something else?
Brian Donegan  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, May 4, 2011 5:34:46 AM(UTC)
Brian Donegan

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,868
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Thanks: 2 times
Was thanked: 141 time(s) in 134 post(s)
Do you still get the noise if you use the outlet used by the other amplifier?
arvema  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, May 4, 2011 7:10:41 AM(UTC)
arvema

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 10/21/2010(UTC)
Posts: 17
Location: Norway

Thanks: 1 times
Thanks for reply.

No, using the same outlet did not remove the noise. I also tried connecting the other amplifier to the same outlet in my living room, and it did not produce any noise. But when I connected it to the IVY's single ended output, the one I use for phones, the same noise came through this amplifier also. I have a dedicated 16amp circuit with one outlet for my stereo. The strange thing is that this particular noise suddenly arrived some days ago, and has stayed since then.

I have a KE Power Source Mains Conditioner (http://www.kempelektroniks.com/Line-Conditioners/Power-Source.aspx) which I use for the digital parts. The noise is not changing when I try all possible combinations with or without this filter, also including the Sympaticos.

Edited by user Wednesday, May 4, 2011 8:19:24 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rss Feed  Atom Feed
Users browsing this topic
GuestUser (5)
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.